Worth going back to the gym on may 1?

[SandisLL]

Today one from Health institutions reporeted 1 case of death : male 52 y.o, upper middle class, traveled aboard, now after 1 month died. No additional public info, just that he had + covid test.

 

[Robocok]

Good chance that his "businesses" are managing his parents' rental properties.

Nice try, everything I made myself.

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

The Gym I work at just mass emailed all of us and holy shit..,,. they are going to completely restructure everything and it sounds like about half of us are going to lose our jobs. I expect I'll probably be one of them. I've been there for 30 years and Poof! Gone. Just like that.

 

[Robocok]

So to recap, @Robocok was willing to post publicly his opinion that the CDC is out to get him because his wrists hurt, he has arthritis poor guy, if he can't afford "Himalayan Sea Salt (not the cheap stuff like Mortons)" and "air fried organic bacon", SO, as a freedom loving American, he thinks virus-be-dammed, his business is priority. Also vaccines are evil and California is a hard place to live. Must've sounded better in his head huh?

California is still a great place to live as America has been for over 2 centuries. You could make a similarly stupid statement like 'why did we have to participate in wars when it's such a great place? Everything is fine here, we have a good quality of life'

I'm saying that I'm concerned about the direction that the state is heading. This is not the same thing as complaining about the current quality of life here. I've already explained that multiple times. Are you dense?

Glad you like my recipes and air fryer recommendation.

You mentioned earlier that I outed myself as being completely ignorant about safety protocol for dealing with a virus and this was evidenced by my asking you what you do differently when wearing gloves at the store. You still haven't answered this and I don't think you have a good answer.

The ONLY hole you could possibly point out in my one glove protocol is whether or not I should be handling some of the items that I pull from the shelf with my gloved hand or grabbing them with my bare hand.

If you use your gloved hands to touch your wallet or phone, you've just cross contaminated them. I could bring my card only to check out and sanitize it after, but sometimes I inadvertently rub or itch my face which is why I keep one hand bare and clean (again, you could argue that I should be using my gloved hand to pull items but whatever)

There's more to the aip diet and the fact that I haven't been sick since I started following it, which I will detail in my response below. I'll address you again if and when you address the glove protocol question because you're now trying to talk about recipes and cooking tips in a desperate bid to 'gotcha' my aip recommendation. You should give aip a try yourself. It would probably improve your gut microbiome and make you less bitchy.

The National Psoriasis Foundation itself recommends an anti-inflammatory diet and regular exercise. So why did you have retreat into the quacksphere corners of the web to discover this revolutionary treatment protocol?

An anti-inflammatory diet is not the same thing as aip. Nothing more to say to you than educate yourself on the difference and that you should acknowledge the fact that diet was never mentioned by any of the doctors I met as a viable treatment option. I thought you would offer a better argument than this.

We often underestimate the amount of luck involved in our lives. It is great you were able to determine your source of extreme food allergy/IBS/etc when trained professionals failed. However you're underestimating number of shitty doctors, pure luck in finding it yourself and finally being able to solve one problem doesn't make you a subject matter expert or knowledgeable on other unrelated issues.

I come across this issue often among some even very very smart people. They think because they excel at one thing they know what's best in other situations. They are clearly mistaken. I am sorry you're being insulted. I know you are not trolling but you definitely need to study the issue a lot more and not from conspiracy blogs.

No need to be sorry... I had a great night last night.

I'm not completely opposed to all western medicine. I broke my thumb and wrist and without a doctor setting the bones back in place, I'd be crooked and gimpy in those areas.

In my personal experience with western doctors, that's the extent of my appreciation for them.

Here are my issues...

The vast majority of them are too quick to prescribe antibiotics. There are multiple problems with this, but first, don't get me wrong.. antibiotics are great when someone has a serious infection that their body cannot clear on its own. The problem is that they are often used for issues that are not that serious and there are multiple long term consequences.

When you use antibiotics, all of the bacteria in your body, 'good' and bad are wiped out. Our 'healthy' microbiome exist in our gut and on our skin and help to protect us from infection as well. Not only do they aid in digestion and immune system function, healthy gut and skin flora is also linked to improved cognitive function. My gf's daughter and daughter's bf are both studying to be doctors and have been researching this very subject on rats.

So, antibiotics should always be a last resort because they wipe out your bodies natural defenses and is why brain fog is common after a course of ab.



It hits home personally because my son was prescribed antibiotics multiple times as a young child every time he was sick and his overprotective mother rushed him to the doctor. He was also prescribed ritalin at 5 years of age because he couldn't concentrate well enough at school according to his teacher. This was due to the fact that he wasn't given adequate opportunity to exercise and had had his microbiome wiped out from overprescribed antibiotics. His mom also frequently fed him shit foods such as McDonald's.

Why wouldn't a doctor, the person we go to for advice on how to be at our physical best, point any of this out? Why would he not ask questions to determine what was actually going on? Why is this situation not uncommon?



It's not just McDonald's that owns our doctors, nutritionists, dietitians, and politicians. It's also the pharmaceutical industry which is worth over $370 billion a year.

This leads to my next point on why I was given poor treatment methods when my body literally started failing me, which stooges in this thread try to downplay as my wrists hurting to mock me because they're upset that I called them out on their dangerous ignorance they insist upon.

My first flare up in November 2015 almost killed me. Had I not had a gf to tend to me, I would be a goner. I couldn't get to the toilet.

All 5 doctors had the same basic approach to treating my psoriatic arthritis: corticosteroids, which are an immunosuppressant. This is why antibiotics are prescribed alongside with them, because with most autoimmune disorders, your overactive immune system, brought on by the abundance of garbage in the modern western diet (did you listen to that NPR link?) is attacking your own body.

So they prescribe corticosteroids to quiet it down, and antibiotics to keep you from getting sick since your immune system can no longer do its job properly.

If, as dissectingaorticaneurysm contends, the anti-inflammatory diet (not the same as aip) is so readily available and well known, why didn't a single doctor out of 5 recommend this as a possible solution rather than corticosteroids?



I get it. Guys in this thread feel insulted and now need to look for reasons to discredit what I'm saying but I'm not going anywhere. I am right on these issues, I know and can explain why, and it needs to be heard by other people who are suffering like I was. My ego is out of this. I'm not that difficult to dox but I'm basically anonymous here. I don't care if I'm insulted or not.

I was neighbors for a few months with a guy who owns a chain of bjj gyms that everyone here has heard of (they have ufc champions). His family is beautiful. He encouraged me to go full organic explaining the importance of healthy gut and skin flora telling me how when he was younger he caught ringworm BAD. After an mma fight, it covered his whole neck and chest. He tried all sorts of creams and stuff that are normally recommended by doctors/dermatologists for that sort of thing and nothing worked. It kept coming back until he finally made the switch to an organic diet.

He also informed me that his family NEVER took antibiotics or flu shots and kept a cupboard full of natural remedies like oregano and tea tree oil oil, garlic, etc. for the rare instances that they caught colds. I don't remember everything that he used... should've written it down.

 

[Robocok]

He also educated me about why you shouldn't use antibacterial soap (he recommends Dr. Bronner's) because it destroys your health skin flora that protects you.

I lost a gf to a team of hacks at Long Beach hospital. They adamantly affirmed that she would have been a goner had they not performed surgery. She wasn't that bad until they sawed into her skull and turned her brain dead. Had she been educated about a proper, anti-inflammatory aip diet then there's a good chance that things wouldn't have gotten to that point. Western doctors don't educate unfortunately. They prescribe pills and perform surgery, much of which is unnecessary but people trust their advice because they are 'medical professionals'. I still remember all of the scared faces anxiously awaiting news from arrogant, self-important doctors and nurses (not all, but many people in medicine think they have it figured out when in reality they don't) as I passed by those sterilized rooms in the icu on my way to see her.

I also lost an uncle to upper gi cancer whose doctor recommended high calorie foods like pizza to keep his weight up, dead 2 months after he politely declined my advice to look into natural methods of treatment and optimistically stated that he hoped to be around for another 5+ years. He listened to his doctor.

I was just talking about this with my new gf who is a registered nurse in 2 states and studying for the CA nursing exam. She recounted a story of a friend who was given 6 months to live and recommended to undergo chemo by his doctor. He declined and went the natural route utilizing fasting and anti herbs and vegetables. I don't remember everything she said that he ate but can ask her. He lasted another 5 years.

She said that overprescribed medications have also become a problem in Thailand just like the US and that her mom's doctor tried to give her medication because her glucose was too high. She asked her mom what she'd eaten and that was the reason for it, not because she was diabetic. She told her not to take the medication and she is still perfectly healthy.

She's also not worried about coronavirus and she is probably the healthiest woman I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. I examined her thoroughly last night and this morning and she is in very strong health. We weren't required to wear masks anywhere yesterday and so didn't bother (like a lot of people) though we comply wherever it's required.

Anyway, I don't expect this to make much of a difference as more than one poster has their ego personally invested in arguing with me saying nonsense like I live off managing my parent's property. That was dumb but whatever.

 

[ImmigrantMentality]

The Gym I work at just mass emailed all of us and holy shit..,,. they are going to completely restructure everything and it sounds like about half of us are going to lose our jobs. I expect I'll probably be one of them. I've been there for 30 years and Poof! Gone. Just like that.

Sorry to hear that, I would think they would need extra help to do more maintenance and things like that. Unless you have a completely different task

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Sorry to hear that, I would think they would need extra help to do more maintenance and things like that. Unless you have a completely different task

I've been teaching a cardio kickboxing class since I was in my 20's. it's been a good run, but it's hard on my back. So I'm trying to take a positive view of it. Having all this time off I've realized how much better my back has been doing and I was honestly thinking if maybe it wasn't time to hang it up. I guess this makes the decision for me. Life is crazy sometimes.

 

[DEVILsSON]

He also educated me about why you shouldn't use antibacterial soap (he recommends Dr. Bronner's) because it destroys your health skin flora that protects you.

I lost a gf to a team of hacks at Long Beach hospital. They adamantly affirmed that she would have been a goner had they not performed surgery. She wasn't that bad until they sawed into her skull and turned her brain dead. Had she been educated about a proper, anti-inflammatory aip diet then there's a good chance that things wouldn't have gotten to that point. Western doctors don't educate unfortunately. They prescribe pills and perform surgery, much of which is unnecessary but people trust their advice because they are 'medical professionals'. I still remember all of the scared faces anxiously awaiting news from arrogant, self-important doctors and nurses (not all, but many people in medicine think they have it figured out when in reality they don't) as I passed by those sterilized rooms in the icu on my way to see her.

I also lost an uncle to upper gi cancer whose doctor recommended high calorie foods like pizza to keep his weight up, dead 2 months after he politely declined my advice to look into natural methods of treatment and optimistically stated that he hoped to be around for another 5+ years. He listened to his doctor.

I was just talking about this with my new gf who is a registered nurse in 2 states and studying for the CA nursing exam. She recounted a story of a friend who was given 6 months to live and recommended to undergo chemo by his doctor. He declined and went the natural route utilizing fasting and anti herbs and vegetables. I don't remember everything she said that he ate but can ask her. He lasted another 5 years.

She said that overprescribed medications have also become a problem in Thailand just like the US and that her mom's doctor tried to give her medication because her glucose was too high. She asked her mom what she'd eaten and that was the reason for it, not because she was diabetic. She told her not to take the medication and she is still perfectly healthy.

She's also not worried about coronavirus and she is probably the healthiest woman I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. I examined her thoroughly last night and this morning and she is in very strong health. We weren't required to wear masks anywhere yesterday and so didn't bother (like a lot of people) though we comply wherever it's required.

Anyway, I don't expect this to make much of a difference as more than one poster has their ego personally invested in arguing with me saying nonsense like I live off managing my parent's property. That was dumb but whatever.

Following traditional medicine is also what probably turned Steve Jobs's treatable cancer into untreatable and killed him as a wealthy and influential man. Notice how for many months Jobs wasted his time with traditional medicine and when it invariably failed, he turned to Western medicine as a last resort but despite his billions it was too late.

There's a conflation of ideas again. Yes eat well. Eat organic. Don't eat junk. Drink plenty of water. Exercise. Keep bodyfat in check. Don't over rely on antibiotics. Many Western doctors, especially family doctors who are long time out of medical school and have limited specialty miss things. They also often lack basic knowledge in nutrition and exercise methodologies. I stumbled on it myself and was puzzled how a doctor would know almost nothing in such areas. I believe current medical schools are incorporating more of these topics.

Yet antibiotics are still an amazing human invention when used properly. Yes if every idiot misuses them for a slight cold or flu and we get super resistant strains it's very bad. But on average antibiotics are nothing short of amazing. Countless lives have been saved.

I am also personally somewhat versed in traditional medicine and apply some things for minor issues. I find relief from cupping as an example and have used it since I was a small child in the former Soviet Union.

Typically doctors offer a range of treatments. For example for injuries it involves everything from rest, ice, rehabilitation, etc to surgical options which vary in scope.

You cannot make broad/blanket generalizations from a couple personal (anecdotal) experiences. You are falling victim to at least a couple logical biases / fallacies.

 

[KnightTemplar]

I've been teaching a cardio kickboxing class since I was in my 20's. it's been a good run, but it's hard on my back. So I'm trying to take a positive view of it. Having all this time off I've realized how much better my back has been doing and I was honestly thinking if maybe it wasn't time to hang it up. I guess this makes the decision for me. Life is crazy sometimes.

Good luck, bro. Hope you find something else quickly.

 

[spdrew2143]

He also educated me about why you shouldn't use antibacterial soap (he recommends Dr. Bronner's) because it destroys your health skin flora that protects you.

I lost a gf to a team of hacks at Long Beach hospital. They adamantly affirmed that she would have been a goner had they not performed surgery. She wasn't that bad until they sawed into her skull and turned her brain dead. Had she been educated about a proper, anti-inflammatory aip diet then there's a good chance that things wouldn't have gotten to that point. Western doctors don't educate unfortunately. They prescribe pills and perform surgery, much of which is unnecessary but people trust their advice because they are 'medical professionals'. I still remember all of the scared faces anxiously awaiting news from arrogant, self-important doctors and nurses (not all, but many people in medicine think they have it figured out when in reality they don't) as I passed by those sterilized rooms in the icu on my way to see her.

I also lost an uncle to upper gi cancer whose doctor recommended high calorie foods like pizza to keep his weight up, dead 2 months after he politely declined my advice to look into natural methods of treatment and optimistically stated that he hoped to be around for another 5+ years. He listened to his doctor.

I was just talking about this with my new gf who is a registered nurse in 2 states and studying for the CA nursing exam. She recounted a story of a friend who was given 6 months to live and recommended to undergo chemo by his doctor. He declined and went the natural route utilizing fasting and anti herbs and vegetables. I don't remember everything she said that he ate but can ask her. He lasted another 5 years.

She said that overprescribed medications have also become a problem in Thailand just like the US and that her mom's doctor tried to give her medication because her glucose was too high. She asked her mom what she'd eaten and that was the reason for it, not because she was diabetic. She told her not to take the medication and she is still perfectly healthy.

She's also not worried about coronavirus and she is probably the healthiest woman I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. I examined her thoroughly last night and this morning and she is in very strong health. We weren't required to wear masks anywhere yesterday and so didn't bother (like a lot of people) though we comply wherever it's required.

Anyway, I don't expect this to make much of a difference as more than one poster has their ego personally invested in arguing with me saying nonsense like I live off managing my parent's property. That was dumb but whatever.

Sounds like you really dislike science and modern medicine.

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Good luck, bro. Hope you find something else quickly.

I still have my main source of income, so we should be okay here. The Gym was just a part time gig, three times a week, but I'll definitely miss the people. Some of them have been with me for ten years or more. Life goes on I guess.

 

[Robocok]

Following traditional medicine is also what probably turned Steve Jobs's treatable cancer into untreatable and killed him as a wealthy and influential man. Notice how for many months Jobs wasted his time with traditional medicine and when it invariably failed, he turned to Western medicine as a last resort but despite his billions it was too late.

There's a conflation of ideas again. Yes eat well. Eat organic. Don't eat junk. Drink plenty of water. Exercise. Keep bodyfat in check. Don't over rely on antibiotics. Many Western doctors, especially family doctors who are long time out of medical school and have limited specialty miss things. They also often lack basic knowledge in nutrition and exercise methodologies. I stumbled on it myself and was puzzled how a doctor would know almost nothing in such areas. I believe current medical schools are incorporating more of these topics.

Yet antibiotics are still an amazing human invention when used properly. Yes if every idiot misuses them for a slight cold or flu and we get super resistant strains it's very bad. But on average antibiotics are nothing short of amazing. Countless lives have been saved.

I am also personally somewhat versed in traditional medicine and apply some things for minor issues. I find relief from cupping as an example and have used it since I was a small child in the former Soviet Union.

Typically doctors offer a range of treatments. For example for injuries it involves everything from rest, ice, rehabilitation, etc to surgical options which vary in scope.

You cannot make broad/blanket generalizations from a couple personal (anecdotal) experiences. You are falling victim to at least a couple logical biases / fallacies.

I acknowledged the usefulness of antibiotics in my first paragraph.

Given my experience with western medicine, my skepticism is not unwarranted. That said, I'm not married to my ideas. They continue to evolve and change over time, but I know I'm on the money on a few of the things I wrote about in my essay up there which you didn't address.

One other anecdotal experience I had with doctors... I broke my collarbone about 8-9 years ago in a bike crash. Went to urgent care where they hooked me up with a sling, which was a cheap piece of fabric with velcro. Got a bill in the mail for $200 for that.

Does that experience=all western medicine sucks? Of course not and I never said that but when you encounter so much bs it's totally natural to start questioning things.

You've been one of the more reasonable posters on this subject but there are a number of things I mentioned that you didn't address and it's fine. Cupping is interesting. I don't know a lot about it . My gf's massage therapist does that. I'm a big proponent of massage for recovery/wellness.

I know that my last doctor didn't change anything in his approach to folks with autoimmune disorders. I'm sure he's still injecting dexamethasone and prescribing prednisone and antibiotics like they're candy. I already explained why things are the way they are.

 

[Robocok]

Sounds like you really dislike science and modern medicine.

Science is great. I dislike large companies purposefully spreading misinformation because they prioritize profits over people's well being. A large part of modern medicine is surgery (which at times is necessary and can be a lifesaver but is also over recommended) and pharmaceuticals which are often overprescribed when natural foods and remedies are not only more affordable but also much more effective.

 

[DEVILsSON]

I acknowledged the usefulness of antibiotics in my first paragraph.

Given my experience with western medicine, my skepticism is not unwarranted. That said, I'm not married to my ideas. They continue to evolve and change over time, but I know I'm on the money on a few of the things I wrote about in my essay up there which you didn't address.

One other anecdotal experience I had with doctors... I broke my collarbone about 8-9 years ago in a bike crash. Went to urgent care where they hooked me up with a sling, which was a cheap piece of fabric with velcro. Got a bill in the mail for $200 for that.

Does that experience=all western medicine sucks? Of course not and I never said that but when you encounter so much bs it's totally natural to start questioning things.

You've been one of the more reasonable posters on this subject but there are a number of things I mentioned that you didn't address and it's fine. Cupping is interesting. I don't know a lot about it . My gf's massage therapist does that. I'm a big proponent of massage for recovery/wellness.

I know that my last doctor didn't change anything in his approach to folks with autoimmune disorders. I'm sure he's still injecting dexamethasone and prescribing prednisone and antibiotics like they're candy. I already explained why things are the way they are.

I was mostly addressing totality of what you said. I didn't mean to be dismissive of anything specific you said. If you want me to give my opinion on any specific issue I'd be happy to do it.

I have personally always went with the least invasive treatment(non surgical) for all my injuries(perhaps lucky it was an option). Perhaps I was stupid in doing so. I am not knocking you for doing your best to avoid unnecessary medications or treatments. But I think it is shortsighted to go with traditional medicine for important illnesses or diseases instead of western medicine. I do cupping and have done acupuncture etc. Do I believe in chi? No! I really do think there's a mechanism by which something like cupping helps but it sure as shit not 'improving chi stagnation' or whatever other bs is used to support its use in traditional medicine.

 

[DEVILsSON]

Hospital pricing is a scam. I won't deny that. You hear stories of 100$ aspirin pill and the like.

I am personally against hospitals being able to profit off people's misery and suffering. No one should go to the poorhouse because of medical debt.

 

[SandisLL]

No one should go to the poorhouse because of medical debt.

Yeah.
Imagine how medical services availability and pricing might change if " vulnerable age " doctors and nurses will choose not to work, self isolate etc.
I think, due to large % of medical specialists >50 y.o not happy outcome: longer waiting, higher pricing cos supply/ demand…….. We can't teach young population quickly to become doctors with licences and certificates.

 

[BJ@LW&WW]

risk
catching covid
spreading covid
contributing to secondary economic shutdowns

benefit
get stronk
better health, possibly mild benefit to immunity (to a degree likely irrelevant to pandemic considerations)


imma say not worth it atm. any countys/states that are reopening businesses should be doing so slowly. businesses that perhaps involve the highest risk of transmission with minimal essentialness (i.e. gyms, and gathering locations for enterainment like movie theaters) should really not be amongst the first things to reopen. if they are, its probably a good move by citizens to avoid such businesses, and a good move by business owners to voluntarily not open.

 

[SandisLL]

Yes if every idiot misuses them for a slight cold or flu and we get super resistant strains it's very bad.

Antibiotics are expensive ! and totally useless against casual fly or these casual adenoviruses.
If complications like casual ( I mean bacterial ) pneumonia etc developed after casual fly, then yeah, antibiotics might save life. Already had saved millions of lifes, these ppl also continued to work decades after treatment and pay tax.
---
The problem with resisatnt strains hevily impacts hospitals.
For imeddiate treatment schemes with flowcharts are used to select antibiotics.
Ofc there isn't time to do microbiological research ( take sample, check in lab resistence and sensitivity levels to select antibiotic for treatment ). Because no time here.
---
For planned treatment usually, unless there already isn't suspicions about resistance, too……….
Flowcharts are used, cos they don't want to spend $ for lab services.
They will pick 1-2 antibiotics and if these will not help, they will pick next 1-2 and if these too will not help, then start to think about resistence research.

 

[Ian Coe]

Having read through all of the posts in the last 30 minutes, it seems from page 1 the conversation took a 90 degree turn.

For the OP; do what you can from home and wait it out a little. A change and probably rest won't kill you.

Wrt the Robocok on going discussion; Good for you.
There's nothing else to really say as it seems there are a lot of 'guns pointing in your direction'. Don't get me wrong, I'm just a random person on the internet and I know nothing about you, equally you know nothing about me. That said, I do find your stance interesting from a 'where is he getting this information from'. I will also assert that you seem to be conducting screen grabs from google, which is a search engine, not a peer reviewed and validated source of data or research. From your original posts on page one (for me, shame I can't para reference other then DTG stamped), I don't think you would believe the peer reviewed studies anyway.
Can I ask; If you refute/contest elements from western medicine (through anecdotal evidence with n=1), why do you screen grab google searches from websites that may have an axe to grind to bolster your point of view?

As you seem invested in the arguments that have evolved during this thread, might I suggest further research in to your responses. Most references to studies can be found with a 'cliff notes' if behind a paywall that would provide a layer of impartial evidence. If a website spouts off stuff without references, it is no better than listening to someone on TV wearing a lab coat talk about the benefits of drugs x and y.

Just my 10 pence worth

 

[dissectingaorticaneurysm]

I acknowledged the usefulness of antibiotics in my first paragraph.

Given my experience with western medicine, my skepticism is not unwarranted. That said, I'm not married to my ideas. They continue to evolve and change over time, but I know I'm on the money on a few of the things I wrote about in my essay up there which you didn't address.

One other anecdotal experience I had with doctors... I broke my collarbone about 8-9 years ago in a bike crash. Went to urgent care where they hooked me up with a sling, which was a cheap piece of fabric with velcro. Got a bill in the mail for $200 for that.

Does that experience=all western medicine sucks? Of course not and I never said that but when you encounter so much bs it's totally natural to start questioning things.

You've been one of the more reasonable posters on this subject but there are a number of things I mentioned that you didn't address and it's fine. Cupping is interesting. I don't know a lot about it . My gf's massage therapist does that. I'm a big proponent of massage for recovery/wellness.

I know that my last doctor didn't change anything in his approach to folks with autoimmune disorders. I'm sure he's still injecting dexamethasone and prescribing prednisone and antibiotics like they're candy. I already explained why things are the way they are.

Hospitals ripping you off is a failure of the for-profit American health care system and not "western medicine". Rage against the right targets.

Overprescription of antibiotics and steroid injections is a byproduct of individual doctor laziness. Do you decry the entire automotive repair industry if a mechanic took a shortcut that later failed?

Aren't you an anti-regulation libertarian? Yeah, you guys are why price creep is endemic to American hospitals.