Worst workout in a long long time, no pre workout caffeine!!!

[IronMaidenfan#1]

I made a newb mistake, something that only a white belt should make, I attempted a lifting session without taking any stimulants at all. I always take around 350-400mgs of caffeine pre workout (regardless of if it's lifting, MMA, cardio etc...) but for one reason or another I never got round to it today. I had no caffeine at all today and my last coffee was nearly two days back.

The lifting session was an ordeal. Just terrible. I'm currently doing something a bit different, German Volume Lifting. I normally stick to heavy lifting but I needed a change and thought I'd give this a go. I've been coping with the workout pretty well prior to today and I'm lifting about 65-70% 1RM. I know that 60% 1RM is recommended normally but I just found the weight too easy and unmotivating, so I upped it.

So I got started with a solid warm up including burpees, some chin ups, push ups, squats and other BW movements. This is how I've been warming up throughout this new regime, nothing new...

I started on squats today and immediately I felt terrible, just awful and weak. Without going on the whole workout was like this. I'm putting it down to not having my usual coffee binge pre-workout. I just didn't feel strong, felt unmotivated and my CNS just wasn't the same.

So I guess this rather long winded post was too shout out loud, ' TAKE YOUR FUCKING CAFFEINE!!!!' :icon_chee

 

[Monger]

It could be a reverse placebo type thing. You expected to do worse and therefore you did. Just throwing it out there as it can definitely be a real thing.

As for caffeine use, or any stimulant, I reserve them for more difficult training sessions or special circumstances. If I know I've got a particularly harder training session than usual to do, a competition, or maybe rank testing or something.... I use a good shot of caffeine. But for the more regular day to day stuff I don't bother.

 

[MikeMartial]

Meh, I wouldn't stress about it too much, man. Workouts can be just as cyclical as should your caffeine. I've had some of my shittiest workouts when I've been well fed/slept, and some of my best when I've been fatigued and my diet hasn't been spot-on.

The same can be said for caffeine, and this is why I'm a big proponent of "regularly irregular" cycling. Everyone responds individually to stimulants, so you have to:

• Know how the dosage affects you, and
• Know how your workout is going to respond to the dosage.

I know this is preaching to choir for you, IMF, so it's more for the newbies looking at stimulants.

On a personal note, I've actually cut supplemental caffeine from my met-cons (supplemental being "not coffee". I'd be fucking insane to cut that. EVER.) and saved it just for my lifting days---and not every lifting day. With my met-cons, it seemed like it'd be hit-and-miss. I'd have a phenomenal day, and then the next workout I'd hit a brutal brickwall in the middle.

Taking it out, or as it may be, lowering it to regular levels, seems to resolve the brickwall effect.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

It could be a reverse placebo type thing. You expected to do worse and therefore you did. Just throwing it out there as it can definitely be a real thing.

As for caffeine use, or any stimulant, I reserve them for more difficult training sessions or special circumstances. If I know I've got a particularly harder training session than usual to do, a competition, or maybe rank testing or something.... I use a good shot of caffeine. But for the more regular day to day stuff I don't bother.

The placebo thing is of course possible, I strongly believe in the placebo effect so I recognise that possibility but I doubt it.

Well as far as caffeine use, I literally only have a coffee 1st thing in the day and then I'll have 350-400mgs pre workout. If I'm doing less intensive training then I'll sometimes have slightly less pre workout but 350mgs is generally the amount I keep to. My workout times vary, sometimes in the mid-day and sometimes in the evenings depending on my schedule.

So I dunno. I'm not really bothered by tonight, shitty workouts happen, it just surprised me how badly it went and of course it coincided with me going cold turkey style on caffeine.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

Meh, I wouldn't stress about it too much, man. Workouts can be just as cyclical as should your caffeine. I've had some of my shittiest workouts when I've been well fed/slept, and some of my best when I've been fatigued and my diet hasn't been spot-on.

The same can be said for caffeine, and this is why I'm a big proponent of "regularly irregular" cycling. Everyone responds individually to stimulants, so you have to:

• Know how the dosage affects you, and
• Know how your workout is going to respond to the dosage.

I know this is preaching to choir for you, IMF, so it's more for the newbies looking at stimulants.

On a personal note, I've actually cut supplemental caffeine from my met-cons (supplemental being "not coffee". I'd be fucking insane to cut that. EVER.) and saved it just for my lifting days---and not every lifting day. With my met-cons, it seemed like it'd be hit-and-miss. I'd have a phenomenal day, and then the next workout I'd hit a brutal brickwall in the middle.

Taking it out, or as it may be, lowering it to regular levels, seems to resolve the brickwall effect.

True and although I know caffeine intake needs to be cycled I'm guilty of not doing it as well as I should. I should probably make a log of it and see if it helps. Cheers Mike.

 

[ronin0352]

I know for myself, I plan on cutting out supplemental caffeine completely after tomorrow until my meet. I'm starting to feel my regular dose less & less, so rather than up my dosage, I'm just going off it for about 2 1/2 weeks while I'm deloading anyway.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

I know for myself, I plan on cutting out supplemental caffeine completely after tomorrow until my meet. I'm starting to feel my regular dose less & less, so rather than up my dosage, I'm just going off it for about 2 1/2 weeks while I'm deloading anyway.

Good luck dude, hope it goes better than it did for me tonight! haha

 

[ss4vegeta1]

I cut caffeine out of my diet and I am mad I don't have that super energy but at the same time not because it stresses the adrenals and raises cortisol. The only caffeine I have is a cup of green tea every now and then. Also caffeine withdrawals suck.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

I cut caffeine out of my diet and I am mad I don't have that super energy but at the same time not because it stresses the adrenals and raises cortisol. The only caffeine I have is a cup of green tea every now and then. Also caffeine withdrawals suck.

No need to cut it out of your diet, just take it moderately. The only other person who I know shares your opinion on caffeine is Rowan. Of course it raises cortisol, it is a CNS stimulant afterall but it also increases testosterone. I appreciate your opinion but things are not always black and white. Caffeine (when used appropriately) is an athletes best friend.

Read this if you doubt me.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/caffeines-effects-testosterone-cortisol-783711/

 

[ronin0352]

Good luck dude, hope it goes better than it did for me tonight! haha

Don't get me wrong man, I'm not going to try to compete w/out the caffeine. I'm just going to cut it out while I'm deloading before the contest. I'll probably take a little the morning of the day before the meet, then my normal 200-300 mg the day of the meet.

 

[IronMaidenfan#1]

Don't get me wrong man, I'm not going to try to compete w/out the caffeine. I'm just going to cut it out while I'm deloading before the contest. I'll probably take a little the morning of the day before the meet, then my normal 200-300 mg the day of the meet.

It's ok man, I did understand what your initial post meant. I just meant good luck with the training pre-meet, of course you should get a hell of a kick on the day of the meet. :icon_chee

 

[ronin0352]

OK, I thought I might have worded it poorly, it happens. I'm really not worried about the training I'll be doing w/o the caffeine though, cause it's all deloading & giving the CNS a break. I'm not planning on lifting anything over about 70% - 75% after tomorrow until the meet.

 

[MikeMartial]

Read this if you doubt me.
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/caffeines-effects-testosterone-cortisol-783711/

Totally forgot about that thread, nice find. Added to the FAQ guide.

 

[JSN]

two words:

cold fission

two more:

pure H2O

all the energy you can handle, brudda.

 

[anaconda]

so i have a question then - lets say i take a little eca and caffeine only before my hard conditioning workouts.

will i still be better conditioned? I mean, I know it sounds like a stupid question, but it seems like on normal workout days I feel so tired and rundown and like my conditioning training isnt helping me. I am only taking 5mg ephedrine and 75 mg caffeine twice a week. but during bjj classes i am still just exhausted

 

[Revok]

Stimulants are for the weak. Abide in the Self.

 

[BeRGLeZ]

I remember Carnal from S&P posting his ridiculously high new Squat PR after getting no sleep, breaking up with a gf, not eating, etc etc bunch of crap circumstances and then SMASHING his PR.
You have ON days and you have OFF days.. but this caffeine thing intrigues me I have only started recently taking caffeine before workouts as I find I'm a bit of a sloth. I think it's making the difference in that I'm actually finishing workouts and getting more rolls @ BJJ.

 

[Gary Peters]

I usually supplement a little extra caffeine before my 2 strength workouts per week. With skill and conditioning training i'd prefer to have my body adapt without an artifical boost. Not sure if it matters, just a mental thing im stuck on.

 

[ss4vegeta1]

Caffeine-induced impairment of insulin action but not insulin signaling in human skeletal muscle is reduced by exercise.

We investigated the effects of caffeine ingestion on skeletal muscle glucose uptake, glycogen synthase (GS) activity, and insulin signaling intermediates during a 100-min euglycemic-hyperinsulinemic (100 microU/ml) clamp. On two occasions, seven men performed 1-h one-legged knee extensor exercise at 3 h before the clamp. Caffeine (5 mg/kg) or placebo was administered in a randomized, double-blind fashion 1 h before the clamp. During the clamp, whole-body glucose disposal was reduced (P < 0.05) in caffeine (37.5 +/- 3.1 micromol x min(-1) x kg(-1)) vs. placebo (54.1 +/- 2.9 micromol x min(-1) x kg(-1)). In accordance, the total area under the curve over 100 min (AUC(0--100 min)) for insulin-stimulated glucose uptake in caffeine was reduced (P < 0.05) by approximately 50% in rested and exercised muscle. Caffeine also reduced (P < 0.05) GS activity before and during insulin infusion in both legs. Exercise increased insulin sensitivity of leg glucose uptake in both caffeine and placebo. Insulin increased insulin receptor tyrosine kinase (IRTK), insulin receptor substrate 1-associated phosphatidylinositol (PI) 3-kinase activities, and Ser(473) phosphorylation of protein kinase B (PKB)/Akt significantly but similarly in rested and exercised legs. Furthermore, insulin significantly decreased glycogen synthase kinase-3alpha (GSK-3alpha) activity equally in both legs. Caffeine did not alter insulin signaling in either leg. Plasma epinephrine and muscle cAMP concentrations were increased in caffeine. We conclude that 1) caffeine impairs insulin-stimulated glucose uptake and GS activity in rested and exercised human skeletal muscle; 2) caffeine-induced impairment of insulin-stimulated muscle glucose uptake and downregulation of GS activity are not accompanied by alterations in IRTK, PI 3-kinase, PKB/Akt, or GSK-3alpha but may be associated with increases in epinephrine and intramuscular cAMP concentrations; and 3) exercise reduces the detrimental effects of caffeine on insulin action in muscle.

Caffeine-induced impairment of insulin action but ...[Diabetes. 2002] - PubMed Result

 

[carloslmtcmld]

I think you are to dependent on caffeine. I eat my regular meals daily and that give me more then enough energy to go through the day and work out and I do not even drink coffee. If you are eating right, your body gets all the "caffeine" and nutrients it needs!