World champions with losing records as amateurs

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by Kforcer, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Looking through Boxrec, I noticed that one of my personal favorites from the 90's and early 2000's, Robert Daniels, the former cruiserweight world champion and Tuesday Night Fight regular, apparently had a losing record as an amateur; 22-26. What is even stranger about this is that Robert Daniels lied about his age to become a professional boxer as a teenager, losing all but one of his fights before his deception became uncovered and he was forced to wait until he became of legal age (at least, that was the story I heard on Tuesday Night Fights). You'd assume a kid that wanted to fight as a professional boxer at such a young age would have been doing well as an amateur, to have wanted to do such a thing in the first place.

    Are there any other world champions that had losing records as amateurs? This is the first case I've ever seen. Usually, even if they don't have stellar amateur accomplishments, they have overwhelmingly winning records.
     
  2. SandisLL Brown Belt

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    boxrec is more for pro records.
    I do not use boxrec to evalue boxers amateur experience at all.
    If managers did not submitted all ammy fights, it is what is is.
    boxrec is not sanctioning body and records submission is voluntary. like wiki pages.
    To dig out boxer's amateur experience usable are aiba profiles, more notable tournaments results tables etc alike stuff.

    KB and ammy boxe records usually are incomplete because boxrec main usage is for pro boxing matchmaking as additional tool.

    F.e if boxer does have real record 80-33 confrimed in aiba and national amateur boxing commision and I see that in boxrec he does have 10 amateur fights.
    Ok, for this boxer looks that had been submitted only fights at euro championship and oly trials.
    Like this.

    Some boxers are slow starters and uses style more suitable for pros + does have low output ratio. In ammy boxe with styles used like the same Usyk, Campbell are more suitable. aka, in- out and very good & fast jab. Preferable to have also longer reach than average reach in said weight class etc.

    There ofc is important that record should not be evalued only by total number win- loss.
    Let's take for example boxer boxed in amateurs 3 years.
    Take win / loss ratio in each of these years and compare between years. Had it improved?
    In amateur boxing like in pro ranks is important with who boxer had fought.

    For example, if someone had in championship prelims, 1/4 or 1/2 someone highly ranked and lost close decision.
    Is bad guy that had lost close decision vs oly silver medalist? this fight will gave 0-1 record in ammies.
    By numbers more nice looks 1-0 record even if it was vs guy that didn't had even bronze in his country.

    The same ammy tournament results, if you have someone #1-#2 before semi finals / finals you may drop out of tournament, if you had him later, you might ended with bronze or even silver.

    It looks theoretical phylosophy only initially.
    Why guy X didn't had medal in tournament y? He had prime Usyk before 1/4 final and prime version in ammies was more mobile than ever in pro ranks. Ok, guy lost close decision. It doesn't mean that this boxer was bad boxer.
     
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  3. svmVR2097 Brown Belt

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    Harry Jeffra. Johnny Nelson
     
  4. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Wow, I just saw that--Nelson was 3-10 as an amateur? What an amazing story; not only was he a world champion, he went onto have what, 12 title defenses or something? That gives me even more respect for the guy.
     
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  5. SandisLL Brown Belt

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    Pro career a lot depends from matchmaking and guidance too.
    Some boxers irl did not had any amateur fight, some just couple ammy boxing fights.
    Usually if their base initially was MT, KB etc.
    Doesn't looks advisable career path, I think some ammy fights in adult division are must have. Life still is life.
    Depends from country, in some of them one can't be ammy in adults boxe if he is pro KBer etc.
     
  6. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Jeffra is also amazing; multiple-time world champion, 1-27 as an amateur. Pretty awesome.
     
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  7. Queen B He / Him / His

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    I thought anyone could basically lie on their amateur record except for the National and International bouts
     
  8. svmVR2097 Brown Belt

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    Many can. I’m sure it’s hard to get records of B-Hop’s prison boxing record
     
  9. Mr2urbo Brown Belt

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    Paul Williams was 25-25 as an ammie
     
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  10. Minowafanatic Black Belt

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    I believe Kelly Pavlik lost his first 4 or 5 amateur fights in a row
     
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  11. SandisLL Brown Belt

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    Don't see need to lie to exaggregate amateur experience.
    Usually is opposite, to get a pro debut opponent for " less experience " boxer cheaper.

    Hoverewer if in sources like these: this a bit for insight.
    https://www.aiba.org/aiba-calendar/

    Algirdas Socikas Tournament.
    Looks some not well known country and nothing special. Still this is international event.
    Now if you are looking in tables, you will see some known names there.

    ----
    http://amateur-boxing.strefa.pl/Tournaments/KaunasTournament_Szocikas2012.html

    Ofc these are re- checkable in other sources too.
     
  12. SandisLL Brown Belt

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    Anthony Joshua ENG Aidas Petruskevicius LTU
    Luke Campbell ENG Roman Romanenko RUS
    Eimantas Stanionis LTU Jeff Horne AUS
     
  13. Kforcer Dragon Slayer

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    Wow. Another guy who went onto great things. I would have had even more appreciation for him if I had known that.
     
  14. Kenjamito Freakin Covid

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    Yea I don't think boxrec is a reliable source for amateur records. I know someone who had some 76 amateur fights but on box rec it lists a 5 fight record smh.
     
  15. Jonny Ninja Red Belt

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    tbf he had a very padded record for a champion. He got his 12 defences berating guys that didn’t really deserve a title shot.
    I’m guessing he was a late starter in boxing and didn’t have many ami fights
     

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