Working on the MT Kick

[ssullivan80]

Never mind, I see it. His hips and shoulder go together, but the arm throws back so that it crosses the leg in the middle and the the shoulders rotate back before the hip. The kick they are together, but the break starts with the arm swing dragging the shoulder.

That sound right?

Essentially yes,

The idea is to get your weight as heavy as you can on the ball of the foot on post leg...... as aries decribed below, getting that bend and getting heavy on the post leg is what really allows you to get your hips over and drop your weight into and through the kick. The heel on the post foot (up on ball of foot, heel rotating counterclockwise) should be pointed at or through the target prior to shin making contact.

Just like throwing a right cross, the weight has to transition onto the front foot and across \ through the target . If you leaned back throwing that cross and didn't transfer the weight onto the front foot, even with the pivot and shoulder turn your not going to create nearly as much power. Same principles apply to the kick your trying to throw.

My advice, pay less attention to the arm swing and counterotating the shoulders. If you drop your weight onto that post foot, getting up on the ball of the foot, shoulders over top your hips, then let that rear leg go "slack or limp", letting your hips swing that leg (think of your leg as a chain and wrecking ball, hips just swing it). You'll find in doing this that the counter rotation, throwing the arm back is just a biproduct of the former and it'll naturally occur as a means of counterbalance. When you come up on that post leg, you want to feel like your almost falling through the target \ , the counterotation of the shoulders and arm swing is what prevents you from doing so. In all honesty, if you went through all the motions of the kick as described and didn't counter rotate your shoulders, swing the arm, youd literally fall face first into the mat outside of your opponents rear shoulder.

 

[SummerStriker]

Thanks gents.

I'll be working this all week and I've got a Muay Thai guy coming to spar on Friday so I'll get some in person critique then to. I'll post something next week.

 

[yodave]

You don't have enough hip and shoulder rotation and you aren't connected enough with the ground. I think the biggest problem I can see the knee of your kicking leg needs to be tighter to your body before you throw your leg out.

What I mean is that when you throw a kick the first part of the motion is tight, your knee should move in the same manner as a knee strike and it's only after you shoot out the leg at the final part that it actually becomes a kick. In fact your opponent shouldn't even be able to tell what part of them you are targeting.

That's what jumped out at me is that your knee is too loose at the first part of the kick and I think it's causing your shoulder and hips to not properly align themselves. Look at that muay thai expert video you posted. Notice how tight his knee is to his body before he finishes the kick and how that allows him to align his whole body behind the kick, to the point where his whole kicking motion is explosive and makes him spin around.

 

[Kealty]

In the Muay Thai roundhouse is shoulder behind the kick, with it, or before it?

 

[aries]

Not sure if you seemed convinced about the bent knee thing but I think these still shots will really show how far off you are with your form.

The other thing that is immediately evident is that you are too upright (again the knee bend will help) and you have virtually no step into the low kick. The other is that Kumnark coocks his leg almost horizontally as he loads his kick and his foot is well behind his knee and most importantly his hips are very open. You can see this because his knee is line with both his hips at the start of the kick. Yours is already well ahead of your hips so you are losing lots of power. If you concentrate on cocking your knee out to the side I think you will find your hips open up much more.

And look where your eyeline is compared to his. He's looking at the ground, you are looking up in the air. This will change your posture.

 

[SummerStriker]

Thanks for the still. I'm printing this and putting it up in my garage (where I usually practice).

I do get what you guys are saying. I'm working on it pretty diligently. Thank you.

 

[ssullivan80]

Not sure if you seemed convinced about the bent knee thing but I think these still shots will really show how far off you are with your form.

I don't think his form is far off necessarily (would help to see that post foot, which i assume is planted or he's on the blade vs. ball), if you look at his still image, that's fairly good form for a shoulder or high kick....... The issue is he's attempting a low kick. I think the biggest issue is that he is rushing the kick, too tense. It's fairly common to see guys from TMA backgrounds have this issue with the MT kick, it's mechanics are very different. They tend to want to chamber and snap, which tenses up the hips/thigh and doesn't allow them to really get that stretch in their core (open up hips) to swing the kick. SummerStriker appears to understand and grasp the mechanics well, he is just having to re-teach his body a different set of mechanics to really "fine tune" the kick. I often find that guys who have this initial difficulty with the MT kick, particularly those from TMA backgrounds, once they are able to relax and differentiate the mechanics between snap vs. swing (MT round kick)...... they often end up being the guys who kick the hardest. In truth, he's making the kick far more difficult than it should be.

 

[aries]

I don't think his form is far off necessarily (would help to see that post foot, which i assume is planted or he's on the blade vs. ball), if you look at his still image, that's fairly good form for a shoulder or high kick....... The issue is he's attempting a low kick.

Exactly so it's way off! I agree that it looks like he is attempting a high kick not a low kick. Compared to the video of Kunmark demonstrating the low kick it looks very different. I actually ran the videos in slo mo and no offence to Summerstriker really the differences are big, all the way from the start of the kick to the completion, they are like two different styles of kick.

 

[Denizalp]

I don't know if my two cents are worth much at all and I'm by no means an expert, but here goes..

First off SS, do you feel like you're dragging your rear leg with your hip? because the still shot shows your knees is too far back when you've already rotates your hips,

if you were to transpose the photos, in the photo with the properish technique ( I only say this as everyone has their own little variation that still works fine) his knee at the start of his kick is only a few cm away from yours at its end.

Try pushing off your rear leg when initiating the kick, almost like you do when you run or sprint, and then guide your shin with rather than drag.

 

[Denizalp]

Sorry for the repost of sorts..
And the wall of what hopefully isn't gibberish.

And bear in mind this is only my opinion not gospel.,

Its hard for me to explain, but When you connect you should see your knee on the other side of target, sorta like your knee has gone through them. But you should still be able to throw more hip in at the end of the kick.

But,

Throughout the video you can see that you're not pushing off the rear leg nearly enough and you're using your core and hips to drag your leg as dead weight to the target. It's appears as if you've shifted all of your weight onto your front leg by stepping out and leaning forward then pulled your leg out at the bag with your hip flexor, which is why you look like your leaning too far back after you throw the leg..

rather than pushing your weight off your rear leg, onto your lead leg and harnessing that same momentum by turning your hips to guide and magnify the force of the kick through the target. You're not far off the properish technique, you're just missing the push at the beginning and its kinda snowballing from there. (that is as detailed as I can get)

It took me months of pad sessions and bag work to get the gist of the kick and my trainer's frustation in repeating what he said 100s of times, and even then it's still not 100%.

Also you look really rigid and tense, relax and loosen up a little, I normally do a bit of running or skipping before pads and that helps me loosen up and clear my mind. The video shows a really rigid and labored kick, rather than a relaxed and smooth kick you enjoy throwing and mowing with.

And just take your time learning it, don't stress or fret too much, it'll come to you as you patiently practice. If you scrutinize you'll think too much when kicking.

 

[Denizalp]

Also the initial push off/of the rear leg shouldn't have to be too exaggerated, in the video with the thai guy, he does this by just taking small relaxed steps to shift his weight into the kick, and it looks fluid as fizzuck rather than a plant,pivot and drag.

 

[SummerStriker]

Thanks for the latest replies gentlemen.

This is posted here so I don't lose track of it:

^ I've always thought that a low kick is pretty much the same form as a mid kick just with that change of elevation, it's a cut kick and the foot only needs to be pointed at 90 degrees from straight ahead as the kick impacts.

Excuse my GIF whoring, just found how to make them! Here's the best low kicker in the world, Pornsaneh. Clearly support foot at 90 degrees. Interesting to see how he jumps into his kicks:

 

[peanut66]

@ summerstriker ,,look at your picture vs the muay thai guy picture.

your body is fighting itself , your lower body and monentum is going forward and your upper shoulders and head are shooting backwards , in essense you are expecting your body to flow in two different directions , that is why you got nothing on the kick and it feels awkward

if you are going to commit to a leaping low kick your whole body has to flow in a forward direction ,

that is why the muay thai guys get their head off centre and out of the way of the cross ,but still are on their post leg , you are trying to keep your head out of range of the punch rather than slipping the punch ,

 

[Paradigm]

This is the technique I'm trying to get down:

holy crap...i just realized that this was filmed at my gym (most likely years ago). i didnt even watch the video until i looked at the screencap and it looked suspiciously familiar.

this is from 2010 but the gym looks like this today:



this is probably even older than the video that you posted:

 

[SummerStriker]

Nice

 

[Kealty]

Inquisitus Kru Yod seems to be turning the shoulder before the hip.

In the gif above of Pornsaneh he also seems to do it.

 

[SummerStriker]

I thought I'd bump this thread. I just saw something I can use. Thanks again.

 

[Paradigm]

I thought I'd bump this thread. I just saw something I can use. Thanks again.

sooo...you gonna share with the rest of us?

 

[SummerStriker]

sooo...you gonna share with the rest of us?

I had posted a critique video, and then went back and looked at some of the previous posts. I'm making progress, at least in terms of seeing things if not doing them. Each time it shocks me how little some of the kickers turn their upper body on the low kick - how powerful their counter turn with their shoulders is. I always put the shoulders through with it.

Anyway, I didn't feel like I needed critique on the video once I saw it, because it would mostly just be repeating things people already said, so I deleted it.

 

[Phaiym]

my gym has been lucky enough to have Kronphet Phetrachapat and Thunder Chum Phae teaching the classes for the past 2 weeks...they throw their low kicks in a similar fashion