Working on the MT Kick

SAAMAG said:
You guys sure know how to take something simple and make it complicated.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the premise of a "striking forum". If ya want to make it simple, that's what the gym is for......... eh?

Badger hunting is an art, one to be taken seriously and scientifically if you hope to avoid the wrath and repercussions of sticking your face in harms way!...........
 
Last edited:
ssullivan80 said:
Ya got it brotha!

You'll get some very contradicting advice depending on the training background of who's giving it. A traditional Muay Thai purist is going to see this technique far different than a Kyokushin, Dutch MT, TKD or Karate practitioner will, so take it accordingly and make your own observations through implementation. The ideal technique, is the one that's effective for the individual practitioner.

An interesting way to see the technically fundamental differences between MT purist vs. Kyokushin or "Dutch MT" practitioners is with the concept of the "step out" when kicking. The traditional MT fighter will step out farther on a low kick and that step will progressively work inward as the height of the kick increases, to being either non-existent or extremely subtle when they throw the kick as a head kick. The Kyokushin/TMA or Dutch MT (pivot kicker) practitioner will do the opposite almost, as the kick get's higher they will subtly step out (laterally) a little bit more (not as drastic as the mt example, but still clearly apparent if you watch closely). In short, they'll do the exact opposite with the step n kick principal (given same/similar proximity to target as well. The MT purist will need more space/separation vertically as the kick gets higher vs. more space horizontally for the other....... if that makes sense ?).
Click to expand...

The last year or two, I took a bunch of engineering physics classes. One day after I was hitting the punching bag with hook kicks and falling forward, and it hit me that it was because being all extended gave no place for the equal and opposite force to go but to throw me. So I started arching my back and pulling my upper body back with the impact, which countered the impact force and let me start hook kicking the heavy bag full power, without slipping or falling. It isn't a real part of the technique as taught, but usually it is taught by non-fighters against flimsy pads, and many people who use that kick seem to trip a lot sparring.

Critically thinking through the physics of martial arts when I hear about them has helped me cut a lot of BS from my fighting techniques. Honestly, even if people from fighting schools disagree about the right way of doing things, usually I can parse out that both are right for reasons they might not even know, because the fighting cut the BS out somewhere along the way.

I'd be curious to get into the differences of MT vs. Kyokushin stepping with the kicks. I bet it would unlock some striking techniques I wouldn't think of otherwise.
 
peanut66 said:
to the ts ,

are you working your kicks for muay thai only or kick boxing in general ?

in kickboxing it is just as important to practice kicks without using the follow thru method , the follow thru method is designed to get a person back into their fighting stance without switching stance ,

when combinations or pursuing a person becoms a factor the follow thru /step pivot method is alot slower , that is why the pivoting as you kick and recoiling the kick is implemented in most tma's , it is good to learn both and be able to mix in to your kicking game ,

the paricular kick you are working on is a chopping low kick , it can be used on the front of the opponents leg or the side , depends on where you do your step pivot , you can chop down on the neck with the same kick , you should be also practicing going striaght across the body and also chopping on an angle upwards ,

i personally dont like to practice kicks without a heavy bag or hand pads , i find it screws up technique rather than helps it , your body has to do certain unnecccesary motions in order to control the kick and it just plain fucks up your knees , i would much rather smash a bag or mitts , it gives you some resistance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[MED...For the most part, I can't do it any quicker.
Click to expand...
 
peanut66 said:
i personally dont like to practice kicks without a heavy bag or hand pads , i find it screws up technique rather than helps it , your body has to do certain unnecccesary motions in order to control the kick and it just plain fucks up your knees , i would much rather smash a bag or mitts , it gives you some resistance.
Click to expand...

I agree in a sense. Practicing low/mid kicks it does require you using certain unnecessary movements, as the need to control a kick post impact shouldn't exist in low/mid kicks...... you should really never completely miss making contact with something on either. It does however help with developing flexibility and core control, so it has it's place. Which is the exact reason I feel the opposite about practicing high kicks this way, where doing so without an intended target does have a practical and realistic application in the ring. Personally, if I am "shadowkicking" I am only doing so with high kicks. It still allows you to develop the control (core muscle) and balance and has a realistic and practical application. It's also far less strenuous on the knees as the weight on the post leg decreases as the height of the kick increases (higher up on toes).
 
SummerStriker said:
I actually do it for self defense sparring, under MMA rules for the most part. I'm not really doing it for a competition. Thanks for the video.

As far as hitting while going up or down, doesn't the arcing motion I'm using cover all that? I can adjust the angle of the hit by making the impact at a different time in the arc, and change the level of the arc by aiming. For the most part, I can't do it any quicker.
Click to expand...

thats why you cant do it quiker , to perform that arc requires your body to move differently than if you were to kick across or upward , there is no whip in an arcing kick , there is a hammer/nail effect but less whipping motion.

sometimes you have to cut upwards sneaking a kick under the elbow to the liver , sometimes you cut straight across , sometimes you cut against a leaning body as to be perpendicular to the object , you seem like a very bright person who follows the laws of physics and the principles of body mechanics , thats what its all about '"science" martial arts are based on science ,

how are you going to chop a liver with a downward arcing kick ? not possible without contorting ones body ,, so that must mean you have to change the angle of attack .
 
It's definitely more "rewarding" to kick pads/bags/people...but it's also necessary to have time kicking the air. Builds the necessary supporting muscles for control of the kick.

As far as the kick in question is concerned, simply put its "Te Kod"...essentially a down-angle kick and the opposite of the up-angle kick "Te chiang".

You can do it with or without a triangle step, but for low kicks you traditionally want to come at the target from a flanked angle and while many advocate putting the lead arm straight out as opposed to swinging it back, that's a varied preference.

And to be honest, the name is just a name. You can throw leg kicks with all three directions...Kod, Tad, or Chiang (diagonally down, sideways, diagonally upward) just the same as you can the head.

I also prefer to sit on my low kicks (lower elevation) with my head off center as opposed to leaning back. My guard is somewhere between forward and swinging, and I usually approach from the outside of the lead leg.
 
Last edited:
Just to confuse you :icon_twis

Here's a video of Saenchai making other nak muays miss the head kick. Look at how the kicker handles missing the kick.

@ 0:46 and 1:23 are two good examples;



Note evading a high kick in this way is pretty standard fare.
 
Good highlights of Saenchai.
 
Inquisitus said:
Just to confuse you :icon_twis

Here's a video of Saenchai making other nak muays miss the head kick. Look at how the kicker handles missing the kick.

@ 0:46 and 1:23 are two good examples;



Note evading a high kick in this way is pretty standard fare.
Click to expand...


That's pretty sweet.
 
SAAMAG said:
Good highlights of Saenchai.
Click to expand...

yep, sure were. Then again, there's really no "bad highlights" of Saenchai either.

Saenchai is an interesting conundrum for a MT fighter. His long range striking is much less "pure mt" than his clinch/inside game........ He's just one of those fighters who is pure genius and developed a style of his own, yet never abandoned the fundamentals of the art.
 
Yep...he's like a short version of you!




I'm totally kidding. I meant a lighter version of me.
 
I'm Karatestylist serious.
 
ssullivan80 said:
An interesting way to see the technically fundamental differences between MT purist vs. Kyokushin or "Dutch MT" practitioners is with the concept of the "step out" when kicking. The traditional MT fighter will step out farther on a low kick and that step will progressively work inward as the height of the kick increases, to being either non-existent or extremely subtle when they throw the kick as a head kick. The Kyokushin/TMA or Dutch MT (pivot kicker) practitioner will do the opposite almost, as the kick get's higher they will subtly step out (laterally) a little bit more (not as drastic as the mt example, but still clearly apparent if you watch closely). In short, they'll do the exact opposite with the step n kick principal (given same/similar proximity to target as well. The MT purist will need more space/separation vertically as the kick gets higher vs. more space horizontally for the other....... if that makes sense ?).
Click to expand...

I partly disagree with this, especially the bit in bold. The actual technique varies between MT practitioners but many will actually reverse the direction and step into the kick when they high kick. The idea being that you can kick around the back of their guard, wrap the kick around their neck and enable you to kick high with less flexibility.

A basic summation is:
below elbow height, step across the target
above elbow height step into the target
 
Since the way KK stylists do it was mentioned & someone expressed some interest thought I'd offer up what I know briefly - the video below is how most KK stylists throw their round houses - with a brief explanation although in japanese - easy to see what is being said:




However their are exceptions - like Ryu Narushima - who is considered by most Kyokushin Karateka to have the most notorious roundhouse kick - he throws it a lot differently to the standard roundhouse - mainly because his flexibility allows him to do it his way (similar to the Matsui way) - he throws his roundhouses in a slightly wider arc but because of his flexibility the arc is in actual fact shorter (most KK roundhouses are thrown at a slightly upward arch whereas Narushima throws his much more horizontally because of his dexterity) - so his kicks are slightly quicker & just as powerful - the only downside is that the max power he can generate happens earlier during his arc when kicking - whereas as most guys generate max power further along the arc when kicking. To illustrate what I mean:


Matsui: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il9ObsFHjVM&t=102m53s

Narushima: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y40d9XX59Rs&t=38m15s


- You'll notice Matsui's arc of his kick his much more upward whereas Narushima's is more horizontal - this is where his flexibility comes into it because they use the same kicking motion. As a result Narushima's arc is wider but technically not because he's used his flexibility to make his kicking arc more horizontal - therefore it's quicker & has more power pound for pound than everyone else in KK but the downfall is the maximum power of his kick is reached alot earlier in his kicking arc than other guys like Matsui & your standard KK guy - which means it extremely less powerful if he wants to follow through - since his the point the power was greatest was earlier during his kicking arc - also makes it near impossible to head kick someone much taller than him without losing balance.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,236,949
Messages
55,456,726
Members
174,787
Latest member
Freddie556

Share this page

Back
Top