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Working on the MT Kick

Discussion in 'Standup Technique' started by SummerStriker, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    Hello,

    I used to always spin through 360 on all my MT kicks in shadow boxing because that is how I was taught to do them. Being quite irritating, I made many threads on the kick. Here is probably the last thread on it. I've been working on throwing it the way prescribed here, because I like it better.

    Here is a video of me doing it a couple of times in the air. I'd like some critique on it.

    Thank you.

     
  2. CosItsFun

    CosItsFun Yellow Belt

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    what type of Muay Thai kick are you attempting (not being rude honestly curious)
    It seems like a downwards chopping leg kick for the most part... am I right?

    And am I the only one who gets slightly irritated when people say Muay Thai Kick as if theres only one type of kick in Muay Thai? lol
     
  3. Polarity

    Polarity Orange Belt

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    For some reason you don't look very comfortable in your stance.

    It seems to lack depth due to you being slightly on the toes of your rear foot, putting weight on the front leg. I think then you naturally try to counter the weight going onto your front foot by bringing your feet too close together.
     
  4. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    I usually have a narrow stance. I'm more uncomfortable because I haven't figured out how to throw this kick right and I'm camera shy.

    I am on the ball of the rear foot. That's on purpose. I think it makes me faster.
     
  5. Inquisitus

    Inquisitus Blue Belt

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    Your shoulders are turning to soon. If you watch Buakaw and other Thai's shadow box, their shoulders are "behind" the kick. It should feel like the shoulders and the hip are "counter" rotating in relation to each other. I don't see the latter in your form.





    Especially for Buakaw, b/c he's kicking without hitting a target, his hip fully turns before he turns the shoulder and faces in the opposite direction. Hope that makes sense.

    Oh yes, this is my favorite video for trying to explain the shoulder thing. Sean Wright is not the smoothest kicker but the idea is there.

     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2013
  6. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    I'm trying to hit mostly level, throwing the kick in an arc so that it comes up, hits level or slightly down, and then comes back down to stop the turn. The high kick is just a neck kick. I'm doing these at different levels.

    I'm not usually too precise on terminology. For example, I call front, round house, and curve TKD kicks "snap kicks" because I treat them as the same kick angled different. That's just my custom. I do group MT round kicks together, despite that they can come with different steps or angles. I realize not everyone agrees with that.
     
  7. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

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    I personally wouldn't test technique with shadowboxing. I find my technique changes when I'm striking into a solid object. That said, with a traditional Muay Thai Angle kick there is a greater step off to the side and the leg reaches out more. The up to down chop of the kick is more suitable for a closer range kick which is seen more in Kyokushin.

    See 58 sec of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-FIhegCV9E

    vs. all the kicks after 40 sec of this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw0NPL_JpMw

    Notice how the MT kick comes more straight out rather than up to down, and that the knee is more extended.

    Also realize that both styles use both style of kick, just in KK competition the fight tends to be closer so there is less space to elevate the leg before contact.
     
  8. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    Thank you. I feel that.

    The way I was taught was to always spin through 360, and that was necessary because the hips and shoulders come together, so there wasn't anything to possibly stop you. Separating the two is hard. I'm actually trying to separate them. I'll try to mentally "over do it" and see if that gets closer. The feeling is pretty extreme.

    Here is an old shadow boxing video where I do the kick the way I was taught.

     
  9. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    Thank you.

    I'm pretty comfortable with how I hit with the kick I know, with the shoulder turning with the hip. The follow through 360 vs. stopping mid way conversation is what exposed to me that I was doing the kick differently than Thais actually do it, with the shoulder held back and the hips coming forward without it. It feels very strange but I want to learn that kick.

    I guess another difference with mine is also how bend the knee is. I always thought of it as a kick to do within punching range but I guess the real Thai style kick is in fact longer.

    So strange.
     
  10. Polarity

    Polarity Orange Belt

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    You probably won't like it, let alone try it but I think you would benefit from spreading your stance and/or sitting on your back foot rather than being on the ball of it.
     
  11. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    ooohhhhhh I see.
     
  12. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    I just started taking a wrestling lesson, and the instructor said the same thing, so I've been working a little on it.

    With feet closer and on the ball, the front foot kick comes further out from my body than people are used to and the rear foot starts closer. It is a fake speed thing and it fucks with people a lot. Most people I train with can't believe my kicking speed vs. my size. Spreading my stance out does make take down defense and stronger punching easier, but it takes a little off my core strength, so I don't know. I'm still up in the air on it.
     
  13. Bennosuke

    Bennosuke Blue Belt

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    I prefer more bend in the knee as well, coming from a similar karate background. I like being able to snap the kick more, it makes the trick a little slower, but trickier so who cares. That said, everyone will vary the amount of knee bend they use based on how close they are. You will see guys from Thailand land with a bent knee if they are in close. The difference is in how the leg travels through the air. A classic Karate or TKD style will be to get the knee up first, then to extend the kick. A classic MT style will be to launch the kick in a more linear path to its destination. At least in my humble observation and experience.
     
  14. Inquisitus

    Inquisitus Blue Belt

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    I was just going to point that out but i guess you saw that after i did the edit.

    Agree w/ Bennosuke, you should practice form against a surface, even if it's very slow.
     
  15. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    I got ya. Yeah, a kick is just a kick. I'm sure there are lots of ways to do it.
     
  16. CosItsFun

    CosItsFun Yellow Belt

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    Oh I see. I think your technique is mostly good, from my inexperienced view point, however a lot of the time it seems you telegraph the kick a lot. Almost like your body is pivoting/rotating ages before your leg actually starts the kick. Maybe try to tone that down a bit.

    Also, sorry if I came across really annoyed or angry lol I just find it interesting how must people do it, doesn't really bother me though.
     
  17. ssullivan80

    ssullivan80 see....what had happened was

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    I think it looks good, this style of kicking is personally how I like to throw low kicks. In essence your pivot kicking vs. stepping out and kicking. So the idea in pivot kicking is to create the tension and load the hips without the step out (which opens the hips). Here's what I would advise you give a try.

    - Get farther forward, more crunched over, keeping your shoulders over top hips. Try not to lean away, but instead lean or transfer your weight across. Have your weight falling toward where the kicking leg is going to come down to the mat. i.e: \

    - Try to delay your pivot, your pivoting just a little bit early. Work on getting point of your shoulder and point of hip on kicking leg/side as far through/across the target as you can before you pivot off the post leg/foot. This is what creates the "rubberband" affect, loading the hips. This style of kicking relies on more flexible hips than the step n kick method.

    - When you do pivot, focus less on the kicking leg, instead focus on the pivot foot and getting the heel of the pivoting foot turned counterclockwise as far through the target as you possibly can. If you really want to get power on this kick, the heel on the pivoting foot will be pointed at or through the target before the shin ever makes contact. By doing this, the ball of the foot on kicking leg should drive downward to the mat (through target) like your trying to "drive a nail through" the mat with the ball of that foot as it makes contact.
     
  18. SummerStriker

    SummerStriker Black Belt

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    The reason I lean back is to make some space so that my head is out of reach of their cross unless they come way forward during the kick. I can see how what you said would make the kick harder, but is it more dangerous?

    So, what other posters have advised and posted videos to show is that the shoulder doesn't come at first. The hips come but the shoulder almost rotates away when you throw the arm down so that you can't spin through. What do you think of that?

    I can definitely work on pivoting a little later. I'll start that today for sure.

    So if I start pivoting later, but still pivot further than I am, putting two and two together, you want me to pivot faster?

    Thanks man.
     
  19. ssullivan80

    ssullivan80 see....what had happened was

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    No prob man, see in red above
     
  20. aries

    aries Silver Belt

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    You look off balance is the first thing I noticed. Like I could lightly tap your shoulder and you'd fall backwards because you are leaning too far back. That amount of lean would be ok for a higher kick but not for a low kick.

    It wasn't too bad but on the other video, were they teeps you were doing? I ask because they look more like snap kicks.
     

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