Women need to man up.

[Phlog]

And what some femenists will say is that those strengths and weaknesses aren't a product of nature, that those are a byproduct of gender roles being forced on us at a very young age. My daughter plays with dolls and my son plays with toy tools (it's really the only way to keep his little paws off my tools), so I'm just helping to perpetuate this apparently.

Yeah, but their norms shown across cultures and species so their response is pretty easy to shoot down. Being a father you know this implicitly already!

At 3 months my daughter was staring at faces more and vocalising more and more complexly, my 3 month twin son was holding his body weight on his legs and has a grip of a man. He wears the same clothes she does and doesn't yet understand any bias we might show. The difference between the sexes is manifest and, if you think about it incredibly fucking obvious to all.

 

[BEER]

Nyc suburb

Probably not a beacon for feminism.

 

[irish_thug]

I use the toilet reverse cowgirl style. Check mate.

Amatuer

 

[Devout Pessimist]

I use the toilet reverse cowgirl style. Check mate.

You win the internet.

 

[irish_thug]

Yeah, but their norms shown across cultures and species so their response is pretty easy to shoot down. Being a father you know this implicitly already!

At 3 months my daughter was staring at faces more and vocalising more and more complexly, my 3 month twin son was holding his body weight on his legs and has a grip of a man. He wears the same clothes she does and doesn't yet understand any bias we might show. The difference between the sexes is manifest and, if you think about it incredibly fucking obvious to all.

My buddy has twins, boy and a girl, he says the same thing about the developemnt. My son will be two next week, physically he's at where my daughter was at three. Vocally she was waaaaayy more advanced than him.

 

[Troublesome10]

inb4voxom

Sherdog, a place with disproportionately poor gender balance, isn't the best place to have reasonable discussion of women's issues, but Beer nailed a lot of it.

The only place I'd disagree is that I still think Feminism is useful in the U.S. There are a lot of problems that, even if they can't be fixed, need to be discussed. For example, in fields where women make less than men for equal work, the pay gap stems almost entirely from the fact that women are shit at negotiating. However, studies have shown that women who negotiate aggressively are viewed as bitchy and don't get the raise they want. So these women are in a bind.

I don't think this problem has a solution (the expectation that women shouldn't be as aggressive as men has so much biology, history, and statistics behind it that you'd basically have to rebuild our culture from the ground up to get rid of it), but it definitely deserves discussion and Feminism should be the ideology spearheading such discussions.

I think the third wave emphasis on intersectionality was reactive rather than proactive. With regards to the OP, such women definitely need to STFU and man up. Most women are pretty reasonable, though, and enjoy men.

From what I've seen, the income disparity between men and women is truly only about 3% discrimination, with the rest due to lifestyle choices which men and women approach differently. For example, a woman is more likely to try and strike a good work/family life balance, whereas a man is more likely to, for example, take a job that has him pack up and move out of town a few months of the year, or go full corporate whore and try to reach the top at any cost. The numbers alone are misleading.



Also, this may be way off, it's just a thought I had- but aren't the values being espoused like 'strength' and 'resilience' and such, really "masculine" values (derived from Patriarchal traditions) in the first place? And if so, are feminists looking in the wrong place?


Another thing that really grinds my gears is how radical feminism is attempting to LEGISLATE equality by demanding equal representation (ie 50/50) in all professions and in corporate boardrooms. I think this is ridiculous. It's like affirmative action for the sexes, and ignores the idea of merit and hard work. I see women demanding more women hedge fund managers, but I never hear them cry out for more men working at Molly Maid!

 

[johnny5isalive]

Feminism isn't an epic fail. I can vote, own property, marry whomever I want, run for office, hold a position of authority. Come on. All of that is because of the successes of feminism.

And don't presume to tell me what I do and don't want in relation to equality, thanks very much.

You can't be Queen of the world!

 

[Brampton_Boy]

Much of the discrepancies you point out are biological differences between the sexes manifested culturally. Women are better at language and social skills, a good women doesn't need to resort to the qualities you saw as good in your male boss to some admittedly small extent.

Females are worse at mathematics than men, especially at the higher end of the range.

Women are better at nurturing. Not all, it's more those people with more feminine brains, but most of them are women.

You're assuming to much that culture is separate from biology. In fact what jobs people do is the best indicator of which sex brain they have. Our biology informs our culture which then takes an extra couple of malleable steps.

That's why equality of opportunity is important, not equality.

The issue with this line of reasoning (although I don't principally disagree with your overall assertion) is that our presumptions surrounding each sex's respective strengths and weaknesses serve as a barrier to those that choose to defy gender expectations.

While on average, men may be better than math than woman, and on average, woman are more nurturing than men, there is going to be a subset of those groups that excel regardless of our "sex brain" (as you characterized it).

A brilliant female engineering student should not have to prove to her male colleagues that she equal to them, and conversely, a male nurse shouldn't have his patients assume that he provides a lower quality of care than his female counterpart.

People's worth (in a vocational sense) should be judged on the merits of their work. As far as I'm concerned, this is mutually exclusive of their gender, race etc.

 

[Bukowski82]

I completely support Womens Rights, etc. And feminism was and still is needed... But it got weird.

[YT]Ldsqw8lXfjY[/YT]

^This is how I picture modern feminism...

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

I was just going to post a similar sentiment. I don't know one girl like what is described in this article and I don't think I am anything like that either. The only place I even hear about this evil feminist woman and how she vilifies man, is on Sherdog.

Word. You wanna make out?

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

Probably not a beacon for feminism.

I wouldn't know. They're on their computers, not in places where people enjoy themselves.

 

[jamiehunter]

We haven't had a good feminist related thread in a while. Sad that when I read this article I immediately thought of sherdog.

From The Globe and Mail: Advice to younger women: Practise manning up - http://www.theglobeandmail.com/glob...+/+etc.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links



Thoughts?

I'm conflicted on this article.

I agree that it's ridiculous to shame men for such things as 'manspreading'. However, the article seems to be placing all the blame on bad gender relations solely on women which I disagree with. Both men and women have a role in bad gender relations and are partly to blame. Of course, not all men and not all women but some members of both genders have acted inappropriately and/or complained about nothing.

For example on the manspreading issue: it should be common sense that when a subway (or other mode of public transportation) is extremely crowded and seats are limited that it's extremely rude to block 2-3 seats with your legs.

Therefore, if it's a relatively empty subway, bus, etc. and a man spreads his legs and a woman complains then she's in the wrong unless she was seated first and he invaded her space. However, if it's abundantly clear a guy is blocking one of the last seats then he's in the wrong. Having testicles doesn't negate common sense or common courtesy.

With that being said I don't feel like it's a 'feminist' issue anymore than talking loudly on your cellphone in a movie theater is a feminist issue. It's a courtesy issue which (at least for me) has always been resolved by asking the guy to move his leg.

Basically I feel like some women are taking it too far and complaining about nothing. At the same time some men do act in inappropriate ways that should be obvious is inappropriate to anyone with a functioning brain.

For example: following someone you don't know is inappropriate, touching/grabbing at someone you don't know is inappropriate, making crude gestures is inappropriate (depending on the place and person), and cat-calling is inappropriate depending on what is said and the location. There's a difference between a short whistle and yelling what sounds like a pornographic script.

However, I feel only the first 2 are truly problems. The gestures and cat-calling is more an issue if it escalates to the guy following the girl or trying to grab at her.

With that being said, while I don't feel we need a million woman march over cat-calling, I do think it's common sense that there's a time and place for everything including cat-calling/making gestures (ie in a club at 2 AM vs in Starbucks at 8 AM).

 

[johnyboy]

I'm all for equality. Unfortunately equality today means that one group should be treated better then the other.

 

[Wingslaught]

Women need to learn how to fall properly. Whenever a woman falls it looks like you're watching a crash test dummy.

 

[fightdonttweet]

This is largely true. But even when you studied never married women (women who don't have kids and have never taken off for work) with never married men of the same education level and work habits, there are a few fields where there's a small gap. This is what I was referring to and is explainable by negotiation. Which leads to the problem that women are typically penalized for negotiating.

Is this because they are penalized or that women don't have the metaphorical balls to take risks, be aggressive, and deal with negative feedback when it happens?

I think its the same situation as dating. Women in general do not take initiative and aren't aggressive.

 

[faustian]

I use the toilet reverse cowgirl style. Check mate.

Wait are you talking about AC Slatering a toilet? That's next level son

 

[Rusk]

From the article

utterly unable to cope with the garden-variety misdemeanours of boys and men, who have been behaving badly since time began despite our many efforts (most quite successful) to civilize them?

Wtf ... sorry ladies but its men who was moving civilization forward, while women were just getting fucked.

 

[voxom]

Nope, people argue with you for other things you say.

oh yeah. i've never criticized feminists for trying to infantilize women, trying to scare women with false rape stats, trying to tell womankind they are going to be victims all throughout life every chance they get. nope, never said anything like that. and nope definitely never got criticized for saying it either.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

Spoiler

From what I've seen, the income disparity between men and women is truly only about 3% discrimination, with the rest due to lifestyle choices which men and women approach differently. For example, a woman is more likely to try and strike a good work/family life balance, whereas a man is more likely to, for example, take a job that has him pack up and move out of town a few months of the year, or go full corporate whore and try to reach the top at any cost. The numbers alone are misleading.



Also, this may be way off, it's just a thought I had- but aren't the values being espoused like 'strength' and 'resilience' and such, really "masculine" values (derived from Patriarchal traditions) in the first place? And if so, are feminists looking in the wrong place?

Another thing that really grinds my gears is how radical feminism is attempting to LEGISLATE equality by demanding equal representation (ie 50/50) in all professions and in corporate boardrooms. I think this is ridiculous. It's like affirmative action for the sexes, and ignores the idea of merit and hard work. I see women demanding more women hedge fund managers, but I never hear them cry out for more men working at Molly Maid!

I don't believe your last point is entirely correct. There seems to be a hysterical demand for equal results in cushy white collar jobs, especially high-paying management positions, but I don't see women's groups complaining about the lack of representation in hard labor jobs like mining, construction, fishing boats, oil rigs, trucking and so on.

I won't believe fembots are fighting for equal rights until I see them getting as hysterical about the lack of women working in coal mines as they do about "manspreading."

 

[Devout Pessimist]

This woman understands what is going on... I think?