Women need to man up.

[Devout Pessimist]

So should I leave the toilet seat up? Or down?

Because leaving it up would be a symbol of oppression. But leaving it down implies that women cannot handle things themselves.

This is why I need feminism.

If you are really serious about standing in solidarity with the feminist cause, you should urinate sitting down.

 

[BEER]

That's it, isn't it. The pathetic victim-creators get the most attention. Meanwhile moderate feminism continues its march while having to weather the hate aimed at ALL feminist because of the loud and pathetic few.

It's a loud and socially viable minority, believe it or not.

The majority of feminists will sit around and complain about issues without doing anything about them. The feminists you're talking about complain about non-issues and then actually go out to "fix" them. That's how we ended up with the Duluth Model. That's how we ended up with a federal rape definition that doesn't include "forced to penetrate". That's how 99% of rape convictions are against men, despite studies showing that 40% of perpetrators are women when you include "forced to penetrate" as rape. That's how we end up with the "Yes is Yes" law in California that says you can revoke your consent at any point without telling your partner, and it's rape.

The "good feminists" aren't the ones making moves. You can't shun the most accomplished section of your movement just because you don't like what they do. If you're not fighting against their actions and still call yourself a feminist, you're just a PR campaign. You're the one who says "NOT ALL FEMINISTS!" to try to maintain a nice name for the movement while fucked up shit is being done on it's behalf.

Feminism didn't get a bad reputation for nothing.

 

[irish_thug]

If you are really serious about standing in solidarity with the feminist cause, you should urinate sitting down.

Only if I'm to drunk to stand.

 

[Nonsense]

BEER, how very strange you assume I just sit around and complain.

 

[Simian Raticus]

Men are just as culpable in this due to the butthurt exhibited at being labelled something by someone whose opinion doesn't actually mean shit.

Really, feminism in western culture doesn't actually have the power to physically stop me from being who I am and doing my shit. People having their own opinions about it isn't something to be aggrieved over.

 

[BEER]

BEER, how very strange you assume I just sit around and complain.

I'm not talking about you in particular. I'm talking the movement as a whole. I've never seen feminists out and protesting things that matter.

And that might largely be because the shit I do see them complaining about doesn't matter.

I see people protesting dress codes and catcalling.

I see the other side of feminism pushing for laws that turn men into rapists just because a woman changes her mind mid-way through sex.

 

[Banchan]

I think this whole discussion is r exclusively for people sitting at computers. I know a lot of girls and they're ALL normal people that aren't entangled in a gender war. None of them would ever blog.

Obviously there are feminists out there that clutch to being victims, but how many really? And do we really give these buttholes the time of day off the internet?

I'm pretty sure my female friends would tell them to fuck off too.

I was just going to post a similar sentiment. I don't know one girl like what is described in this article and I don't think I am anything like that either. The only place I even hear about this evil feminist woman and how she vilifies man, is on Sherdog.

 

[Brampton_Boy]

Interesting article that I agree with in premise - although to play devil's advocate for a moment, the title in and of itself is sexist (that being strong, resilient etc is a male specific characteristic, i.e "manning" up).

Militant feminism has done irreparable harm to the woman's movement and have drowned out the voice of the moderate feminist. Once upon a time, there was a time where I would have probably characterized myself as a feminist (or more specifically, an advocate for equal rights regardless of gender, race, religion etc).

Now I am afraid to associate myself with that label - it has become connoted with men hating ball busters who play the victim card at the drop of the hat.

With all of that being said, gender bias and discrimination certainly does exist - to the detriment of both men and woman.

When I was in the private sector, the characteristics that we prized in our male boss (tough, no-nonsense, cut throat) we hated in our female director (called her bitchy). In grad school (I was in the econ department), female students were viewed as being less capable than their male counterparts and assumed to have weaker quantitative ability.

On the flip side of that, in the elementary education and nursing faculties at the university I currently teach at, men are viewed as being less nurturing and are thought to lack the requisite patience and empathy to be successful in those fields. I have even heard some students say things like "only gay guys go into nursing".

We are conditioned to have certain expectations surrounding gender roles and responsibilities, and reversing these views is incredibly difficult - which is why groups (including feminists) should continue to advocate for their rights and encourage transformative change.

Telling me that I am a rapist and a mysoginist simply because I was born with a penis is probably not the best way to do it though.

 

[BEER]

I was just going to post a similar sentiment. I don't know one girl like what is described in this article and I don't think I am anything like that either. The only place I even hear about this evil feminist woman and how she vilifies man, is on Sherdog.

Go on Tumblr.

Or if you'd like a direct route to the idiocy, go to the subReddit "tumblrinaction".

 

[Devout Pessimist]

It's a loud and socially viable minority, believe it or not.

The majority of feminists will sit around and complain about issues without doing anything about them. The feminists you're talking about complain about non-issues and then actually go out to "fix" them. That's how we ended up with the Duluth Model. That's how we ended up with a federal rape definition that doesn't include "forced to penetrate". That's how 99% of rape convictions are against men, despite studies showing that 40% of perpetrators are women when you include "forced to penetrate" as rape. That's how we end up with the "Yes is Yes" law in California that says you can revoke your consent at any point without telling your partner, and it's rape.

The "good feminists" aren't the ones making moves. You can't shun the most accomplished section of your movement just because you don't like what they do. If you're not fighting against their actions and still call yourself a feminist, you're just a PR campaign. You're the one who says "NOT ALL FEMINISTS!" to try to maintain a nice name for the movement while fucked up shit is being done on it's behalf.

Feminism didn't get a bad reputation for nothing.

 

[Irenaeus]

And while there was some overlap between the suffragists and first wave Feminism, they were separate movements in many ways. Women's suffrage was largely a political push. Black men had just been given the right to vote and rich white people were worried that elections would now be infiltrated by black interests. A reasonable counter to that was to give women the right to vote. There are more white women than black women and everything was back in order.

In 1968, the first state to allow women's voting was Wyoming. In fact, most states allowed women to vote before the federal precedent in 1920.

Even then, there were more than a few "feminist suffragettes" that were fighting for the right for women to vote to outnumber black voters. It was as much about white supremacy as it was about "women's rights".

I struggle a bit to reconcile the European countries starting to give women the vote at roughly the same time with this. I'm sure it was one of the reasons, but it matches too well up with the timeline of women's rights in the Western world in general for me to immediately buy that it was the main reason. Is this a mainstream consesus in American History?

Women could vote in Ancient Rome and Greece.

I know it's just an example, but I still want to point out that this is completely incorrect.

 

[Leagon]

I was just going to post a similar sentiment. I don't know one girl like what is described in this article and I don't think I am anything like that either. The only place I even hear about this evil feminist woman and how she vilifies man, is on Sherdog.

Just because you don't meet these women doesn't mean they aren't out there.

I'm in academia. These women are the norm. These women have power and are shaping policy. Most importantly, these women [and men] are educating a generation of men that will have power and shape policy. As BEER's post illustrated, it's been far bigger than the Internet for a while now.

 

[Devout Pessimist]

I was just going to post a similar sentiment. I don't know one girl like what is described in this article and I don't think I am anything like that either. The only place I even hear about this evil feminist woman and how she vilifies man, is on Sherdog.

Check out sites like Jezebel, Feministing, the Blog on Huffington Post Canada and check out the GamerGate thread in the video game sub-forum on Sherdog for some examples of how radical women's movements are wreaking havoc.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/showthread.php?p=102261981#post102261981


Also, as Beer pointed out in his excellent post, if these radicals don't exist then why is there insane legislation being passed, censorship on campus, and people condemning scientists for wearing "sexist" t-shirts. Someone has to be out there causing this nonsense to happen.

 

[Leagon]

I struggle a bit to reconcile the European countries starting to give women the vote at roughly the same time with this. I'm sure it was one of the reasons, but it matches too well up with the timeline of women's rights in the Western world in general for me to immediately buy that it was the main reason. Is this a mainstream consesus in American History?

It's not what they teach kids in school, but, as far as I know, it's a pretty accepted understanding.

Remember that America still hasn't had a female president. India, where women currently get gangraped in the street, has had a female president. As our measuring system indicates, we don't feel much pressure to adopt things that the rest of the world already has.

I know it's just an example, but I still want to point out that this is completely incorrect.

You're right. I must have misread that somewhere. I appreciate the correction.

Also, fuck you, I'm not ancient civilizations expert.

 

[Phlog]

Interesting article that I agree with in premise - although to play devil's advocate for a moment, the title in and of itself is sexist (that being strong, resilient etc is a male specific characteristic, i.e "manning" up).

Militant feminism has done irreparable harm to the woman's movement and have drowned out the voice of the moderate feminist. Once upon a time, there was a time where I would have probably characterized myself as a feminist (or more specifically, an advocate for equal rights regardless of gender, race, religion etc).

Now I am afraid to associate myself with that label - it has become connoted with men hating ball busters who play the victim card at the drop of the hat.

With all of that being said, gender bias and discrimination certainly does exist - to the detriment of both men and woman.

When I was in the private sector, the characteristics that we prized in our male boss (tough, no-nonsense, cut throat) we hated in our female director (called her bitchy). In grad school (I was in the econ department), female students were viewed as being less capable than their male counterparts and assumed to have weaker quantitative ability.

On the flip side of that, in the elementary education and nursing faculties at the university I currently teach at, men are viewed as being less nurturing and are thought to lack the requisite patience and empathy to be successful in those fields. I have even heard some students say things like "only gay guys go into nursing".

We are conditioned to have certain expectations surrounding gender roles and responsibilities, and reversing these views is incredibly difficult - which is why groups (including feminists) should continue to advocate for their rights and encourage transformative change.

Telling me that I am a rapist and a mysoginist simply because I was born with a penis is probably not the best way to do it though.

Much of the discrepancies you point out are biological differences between the sexes manifested culturally. Women are better at language and social skills, a good women doesn't need to resort to the qualities you saw as good in your male boss to some admittedly small extent.

Females are worse at mathematics than men, especially at the higher end of the range.

Women are better at nurturing. Not all, it's more those people with more feminine brains, but most of them are women.

You're assuming to much that culture is separate from biology. In fact what jobs people do is the best indicator of which sex brain they have. Our biology informs our culture which then takes an extra couple of malleable steps.

That's why equality of opportunity is important, not equality.

 

[irish_thug]

Much of the discrepancies you point out are biological differences between the sexes manifested culturally. Women are better at language and social skills, a good women doesn't need to resort to the qualities you saw as good in your male boss to some admittedly small extent.

Females are worse at mathematics than men, especially at the higher end of the range.

Women are better at nurturing. Not all, it's more those people with more feminine brains, but most of them are women.

You're assuming to much that culture is separate from biology. In fact what jobs people do is the best indicator of which sex brain they have. Our biology informs our culture which then takes an extra couple of malleable steps.

That's why equality of opportunity is important, not equality.

And what some femenists will say is that those strengths and weaknesses aren't a product of nature, that those are a byproduct of gender roles being forced on us at a very young age. My daughter plays with dolls and my son plays with toy tools (it's really the only way to keep his little paws off my tools), so I'm just helping to perpetuate this apparently.

 

[Banchan]

Check out sites like Jezebel, Feministing, the Blog on Huffington Post Canada and check out the GamerGate thread in the video game sub-forum on Sherdog for some examples of how radical women's movements are wreaking havoc.

http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/showthread.php?p=102261981#post102261981


Also, as Beer pointed out in his excellent post, if these radicals don't exist then why is there insane legislation being passed, censorship on campus, and people condemning scientists for wearing "sexist" t-shirts. Someone has to be out there causing this nonsense to happen.

If you are visiting a site called "Jezebel" or "Feministing", I'm sure you will find what you are looking for. But how common are these kinds of women?

Note that I did not say that they "don't exist", I said that I don't know anyone like that and I am in University. I would think if it were that prevalent, we would have far more rape and harassment allegations than we presently do, since you insist that there is some explosion of rape culture going on.

What "insane" legislation is being passed due to extreme feminists?

 

[BEER]

If you are visiting a site called "Jezebel" or "Feministing", I'm sure you will find what you are looking for. But how common are these kinds of women?

Note that I did not say that they "don't exist", I said that I don't know anyone like that and I am in University. I would think if it were that prevalent, we would have far more rape and harassment allegations than we presently do, since you insist that there is some explosion of rape culture going on.

What "insane" legislation is being passed due to extreme feminists?

I don't think he's implying that we live in a rape culture. But feminists are, despite rape being down 80% in the last 30 years.

And I've posted in two different posts in this thread just a touch of legislation that has been passed due to extreme feminism. It's not exactly uncommon or hard to find.

 

[Gus Fring]

If you are really serious about standing in solidarity with the feminist cause, you should urinate sitting down.

I use the toilet reverse cowgirl style. Check mate.

 

[Flemmy Stardust]

It probably depends on the political climate of the area you live in. My city is pretty lib/dem and a lot of these weirdos are running around.

Nyc suburb