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yes, Povetkin wanted to still go through with the fight, but Atlas felt he wasn't ready and feels it is his responsibility to have him prepared for a championship fight against the Wlad
Wlad/Povetkin Press Conference
- Thread starter Lazy Man
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yes, Povetkin wanted to still go through with the fight, but Atlas felt he wasn't ready and feels it is his responsibility to have him prepared for a championship fight against the Wlad
Lazy Man
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That's pretty funny... Atlas is right, though... although Povetkin will probably never be truly ready for Wlad.
Del the Funk66
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Yes he did. I hate Atlas. Dude is a douche.
Del the Funk66
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That's the thing. Povetkin will lose either way. Maybe he's waiting for Wlad to get old.... :icon_neut
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Because he wants to make sure his charge is as prepared as he's going to be before getting into the ring with the #1 HW in the world? I would think that's exactly what a good trainer (and manager) would do rather than throw the fighter under the bus to get a 10% cut (IE: Atlas could have got $200,000 as the trainer if he didn't oppose the fight, which isn't chump change). Maybe you're confusing the role of a promoter with that of a trainer...? :icon_neut
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See I don't agree here with you here THP. A trainer job is train his fighter to win. Not worry about the opponent. If he belives his fighter isn't ready then no way should he ever show it, and pulling out of the fight tells the fighter you don't belive in him and give him doubt.
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I think it's good for a trainer to openly doubt his own fighter. The trainer isn't a "yes man," it's his job to tell his fighter how good he is. Nobody knows better than the trainer if a fight is winnable or not.
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The trainer's job is to train his fighter to win (or at least give him the winningest chance given his available tools), and by tossing his charge to the wolves without the best opportunity to win (through proper skills build-up, which requires both in and out of ring experience), he is breaching that trust and duty (since he isn't working towards getting him to 100% readiness for every fight he engages in) - I don't see where my logic train has derailed?
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See I don't. If a fighter is going into the biggest fight of hos career and the trainer say "Ok maybe we can win this or He is too good for now" , that creates doubt. if I was the fighter i would think "Shit I must suck". The trainer I would want would be one to tell me "no matter who is in the ring with me, i can beat them." and if i loss fine. Tell what I did wrong and how to fix it. Losing to the best isn't all that bad.
Your right he not a "yes man", he is a strategist that should be ale to provide a game plan to win the fight. Teddy plan is retreat and regroup and the first blow hasn't even landed. So Wlad has already won in the mind games, and Provetkin is going to have to work even harder to get back to even ground now.
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The problem, though, is that the trainer's goal is to give his charge the most realistic chance of beating an opponent - for example, Pete Rademacher's trainer should have said "Listen, you're looking at the green but you're out of Patterson's league at this point and are at a serious risk of losing badly and possibly being seriously hurt" regarding the Floyd Patterson fight rather than letting him go in, get a first round KD and then get pummeled until he was stopped.
Not really given that Povetkin has only faced 2 'high end' HW opponents (in Byrd who was past it and Chambers) in his career and has been way too inactive (3 fights in 2 years vs. less-than-stellar opposition) - he needs to get in more experience against Top 10-15 opponents (and possibly do something like Adamek in fighting a big guy to understand what he's facing).
You can say that Wlad has 'won' the mindgame all you want, but the fact of the matter is that Atlas would have been a horrible trainer to allow his fighter who has probably been gathering dust and is still a work-in-progress to go into the ring and be splatter jobbed by Wlad - just like Pete Rademacher's trainer.
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The promoter is the one in charge if the match making and should know where his fighters are at in the career though advice of the Trainer. The trainer then should quietly tell the promoter that his fighter isn't ready and not go on tv to public embrass his young gun.
Now if the promoter dosen't listen to the trainer, then the trainer should prepare his fighter by telling him everything his does right and everything the other fighter dies wrong and how to take adavagte of it. The key is to build confedence in the young gun and have a plan A,B and C to give the fighter the best chance.
To me it not ok, for a trainer to every tell his fighter, there a good chance your going to lose before a fight.
Look at how Teddy was able will Micheal Moore to a victory by feeding his ego during the fight, that same attitude should be applied during trainging too.
Now if the promoter dosen't listen to the trainer, then the trainer should prepare his fighter by telling him everything his does right and everything the other fighter dies wrong and how to take adavagte of it. The key is to build confedence in the young gun and have a plan A,B and C to give the fighter the best chance.
To me it not ok, for a trainer to every tell his fighter, there a good chance your going to lose before a fight.
Look at how Teddy was able will Micheal Moore to a victory by feeding his ego during the fight, that same attitude should be applied during trainging too.
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The promoter is the party that gets all parties involved (other promoters, managers, fighters, networks, etc.) to make the biggest money fights possible - you're thinking of the manager's duty to lead his charge through their career and milk as much money as possible. And Atlas made it clear since almost immediately after he became Povetkin's trainer that he needed seasoning - this wasn't some 'grand revelation' that he just revealed to Povetkin at the same time as the world.
Well, it actually comes down to the fighter deciding based on the information given by his promoter, manager and trainer, so technically it's the fighter's call. If the fighter wishes to disregard his trainer's advice, that's his choice but the trainer is under no obligation to sugarcoat his actual chances - he should provide the gameplans that he could potentially use to beat his opponent if he's accepted the training gig despite his disapproval.
It depends on the circumstances - if you're being asked about potential style matchups by the manager/promoter/fighter, you should be honest to allow for the most successful/lucrative path to happen. Additionally, if the manager and promoter are not acting in the best interests of the fighter (particularly the manager who has a direct fiduciary duty to give him the best possible career path), the trainer should provide input so the fighter is not oblivious to the reality of the situation. Allowing the fighter to be exploited by the manager without any input at all would make the trainer comparably liable to any career implosion as his manager, IMO.
'Feeding his ego'? Teddy basically questioned his manhood and gave him a 'do or die' notice that he needed to come back strong or face an L against Holyfield. And that was a fight Teddy was comfortable with (on paper) but that he needed to prod Moorer to go to his potential and gut out against Holyfield in order to become the HW champion; it's a different scenario than tossing a rough Povetkin to the wolves (Wladimir Klitschko in this case) when he isn't close to prepared for the challenge.
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Your right, that a real bad example on my part. After replaying in my head, I realize what your saying.
I agree with most of what your saying. I just like to see how some defend the stance by playing devils advocate.
So sometime i speak without really thinking it though.
I was wrong in what the difference in the promoter and
mangers jobs are. So is there a confect of intrest by some
one being a manger and a trainer to a fighter.
I agree with most of what your saying. I just like to see how some defend the stance by playing devils advocate.
So sometime i speak without really thinking it though.
I was wrong in what the difference in the promoter and
mangers jobs are. So is there a confect of intrest by some
one being a manger and a trainer to a fighter.
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What about giving tony Thopson a rematch. He look good against beck.
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I would say the potential conflicts are less noticeable than a promoter being a manager as well (which is banned under the Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act amongst other statutes), like when Don King circumvented by having his son Carl act as manager and trying to 'double dip' as well as haven't inherent conflicts of interest (the most $ from a single fight as a promoter vs. the best $ career path for the fighter as a manager). Still, situations like Nacho Beristain bumbling as a manager/trainer for Juan Manuel Marquez shows that it requires 2 different skill sets.
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Let's be honest - Beck is C level fighter, at best. Anytime he faced a B or A level fighter, he's been battered pretty badly; if Thompson couldn't beat up Beck, that would say something. Thompson still hasn't done nearly enough to warrant a rematch given that the first fight was pretty decisive.
enswell****
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Povetkin ain't some developing spring-chicken, he's 30 years old!
It's lame because Povetkin was scheduled to get his shot almost 2 years ago, Dec 2008, but he had the Achilles injury.
He's been Wladimir's mandatory challenger for 2
It's lame because Povetkin was scheduled to get his shot almost 2 years ago, Dec 2008, but he had the Achilles injury.
He's been Wladimir's mandatory challenger for 2
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