With all things considered- who do you think won the DC/Jones rivalry?

StoneWT said:
DC. Jones was always on gear so the win doesn't count. After all, if his win over DC was clean, why use drugs for the rematch?
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How was the win not clean? He passed his test for the fight. You can't backtrack like that. The rules are what they are at the time of the fight. He faced no discipline or punishment for anything after that fight. So the win obviously counts.
 
The MMA Patriot said:
imo DC fucked with Jones's head so much he led him to dabble with PEDs and flush his career down the drain.

Either that or Jones was always on PEDs and the whole world knows that DC beats clean Jones.
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I wouldn't go so far as to say we know DC beats clean Jones. It's a compelling conjecture, it stands to reason, but unless they actually fight on a level playing field we don't know it.
 
the way dc reacted when dana told him jones tested positive... it's indicative of someone who very much wanted a chance to even the rivarly, not someone who had already won it.
 
Dbreiden83080 said:
How was the win not clean? He passed his test for the fight.
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Did he pass it or beat it? As I recall, Jones' t/e ratio was so low before that bout, it could only indicate a serious testosterone deficiency or the use of a masking agent.
 
Dbreiden83080 said:
How was the win not clean? He passed his test for the fight. You can't backtrack like that. The rules are what they are at the time of the fight. He faced no discipline or punishment for anything after that fight. So the win obviously counts.
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DC/Jones wasn't under the USADA protocol.
 
I honestly think both of them lost. Jones had proven himself the goat and tarnished his entire reputation. DC will likely never get the chance to avenge his loss. And there will always be some SD bags running around saying how he isn't the champion. Not to mention the millions of dollars both lost out on.
 
felmmando said:
Did he pass it or beat it? As I recall, Jones' t/e ratio was so low before that bout, it could only indicate a serious testosterone deficiency or the use of a masking agent.
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He passed what he was required to pass. You can't backtrack like that and just make assumptions. It makes no sense to do so.
 
stormofshadow said:
the way dc reacted when dana told him jones tested positive... it's indicative of someone who very much wanted a chance to even the rivarly, not someone who had already won it.
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Not every way of winning a rivalry is equally satisfying, especially for a fighter. I'm sure Cormier would rather have trounced Jones in the octagon than see him discredited, but he won even if he didn't get satisfaction from Jones.
 
Fighting only- jones

All things considered: DC by a mile
 
felmmando said:
Not every way of winning a rivalry is equally satisfying, especially for a fighter. I'm sure Cormier would rather have trounced Jones in the octagon than see him discredited, but he won even if he didn't get satisfaction from Jones.
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agreed. it's very possible to win something in an unsatisfactory manner. and very possible that's how dc felt/feels.
 
The result of the fight they had has an asterisk beside it now, imo. As does every fight Jones has ever had...

Once a cheater always a cheater... And a cheater can never be GOAT.

Cormier won and he did it by taking a high moral road. He didn't even talk shit when Jones popped. Hopefully he can defend a few times before he retires. Make some great retirement dough.

While Jones sits on his ass for two years ( my personal thought is it should be 3 years ). Not making a fucking penny. Except from sponsors if he didn't lose them for popping. Sponsors tend to drop athletes quickly after guilt has officially been established. Some sponsors don't even wait for actual guilt to be established.

And how many times has this guy hugely fucked up ? His run of good luck with avoiding nothing more than slaps on the wrist. Was quite remarkable... But he was due for Cosmic Justice to make all come together. Because he did some MAJOR fucking up.

He breaks the law. He breaks the rules.

Throw the fucking book at him.
 
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Hm Jons had a lot of fun, partied hard, but overall Im gonna say DC wins at life.
 
Dbreiden83080 said:
He passed what he was required to pass. You can't backtrack like that and just make assumptions. It makes no sense to do so.
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It's a degenerate sense of the term "pass" you're using, similar to a student who "passes" an exam by buying a stolen copy of it beforehand. Even if said student is then issued a diploma, there's a perfectly intelligible sense in which the revelation of the means he used calls into question the claim that he passed the exam. It's not backtracking (as far as I know, nobody has taken away Jones' win bonus), it's reevaluating in terms of new information. In any case, it makes much more sense than the view that no judgment can be reevaluated when new information surfaces.
 
DC pushed Jones to the Cocaine and it was all down hill from there.
 
I think Jon Jones won by winning the only fight they had.
 
felmmando said:
It's a degenerate sense of the term "pass" you're using, similar to a student who "passes" an exam by buying a stolen copy of it beforehand. Even if said student is then issued a diploma, there's a perfectly intelligible sense in which the revelation of the means he used calls into question the claim that he passed the exam. It's not backtracking (as far as I know, nobody has taken away Jones' win bonus), it's reevaluating in terms of new information. In any case, it makes much more sense than the view that no judgment can be reevaluated when new information surfaces.
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The problem with assuming a fighter has always been dirty once they fail a test is guys were getting popped for performance-enhancing drugs long before usada. Fighters like Sonnen and Overeem that should have been experts on the subject but guess what they got caught. So Jones never got caught in his whole career but those guys did. He also went through a whole camp and basically all of another one without failing a test with this current organization. He has like 15 or 16 passed tests.
 
Dbreiden83080 said:
DC will drop that belt very soon. Getting old and fat.. Jones can still come back and reclaim his greatness
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Sure and I also think Jon can redeem himself as a human being.
I believe in redemption and second chances. It gets kinda absurd at fourth, fifth etc chances but thats beside the point. Currently DC wins by being of decent character. Jon actually really screwed over DC by fucking up the way he did, and not allowing DC his chance at redemption. Most likely Cormier will go to his grave thinking I couldve beat him.
 
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