WINNING 'ON POINTS' vs. WINNING **THE FIGHT**

[Broke Lester]

Jones landed 12 more sig strikes combined in the 4th and 5th round. Reyes landed 11 more sig strikes in the 2nd round and Jones turned his back and ran from him. So by your math, that's a 10-7 then, right?

Jones ran for a few seconds to get recomposed and then re-engaged, Reyes ran the entire last 2 rounds just to survive, you don't see a huge difference there? Plus Jones took him down a couple times, Reyes did get back up only to run for survival again.

 

[Mamou]

Jones ran for a few seconds to get recomposed and then re-engaged, Reyes ran the entire last 2 rounds just to survive, you don't see a huge difference there? Plus Jones took him down a couple times, Reyes did get back up only to run for survival again.

Ran for survival yet threw more strikes then Jones in both rounds...

 

[Broke Lester]

Ran for survival yet threw more strikes then Jones in both rounds...

Really? Yes he threw more but landed less.
It was only in the fourth when Jones snatched the momentum, landing 20 of 34 (58%) compared to Reyes who landed 13 of 41 (31%). In the fifth, Jones landed 26 from 34 strike attempts (76%) compared to Reyes who landed 21 from 46 (45%).

There's more to it than just landing strikes, If I were to land 60 strikes on you, but you land 1 on me that knocks me on my ass, who won that round? It was a close fight, I would've been happier if Reyes got the nod, however I don't think it's a robbery. It seems like they both want the rematch, we'll see what happens.

 

[dnmb]

If I were a judge and did not have to care about the judging criteria
I would see no fighter breaking or dominating the other and call it a draw.
But then again most fights would be draws.

 

[Broke Lester]

lmao at 10 - 8 rounds for jones? what planet are you on?? Did he even get a knock down?
landing single punches? so you mean he was fighting back? sounds like 10- 9 to me
If the fight kept going??? its 5 rounds! who cares if it kept going or not,it doesnt!

Jones landed more strikes +1, Jones backed him up the ENTIRE round and the takedowns +1. There's a difference between throwing punches to survive vs throwing punches to win.

 

[HHJ]

Jones landed more strikes +1, Jones backed him up the ENTIRE round and the takedowns +1. There's a difference between throwing punches to survive vs throwing punches to win.

Still not a 10 8 bud

 

[Goodfella86]

The only way to determine who got the better of the other is by following the rules. If they dropped the 10-point must system, it would simply be a fight instead of 5 mini-fights. I like PRIDE scoring better, personally.

But, when you enter a game of rules, you have to play ball. If you narrowly won 3 rounds, you can ensure your victory by surviving (and not giving up 10-8s). Machida-Shogun may be the best example of this. Whether or not you scored 1-3 for him, just assume he scored it for himself. Shogun absolutely won the war, but he may have lost 3 battles.

It's incumbent on us, as the smart fans, to give the benefit of the doubt to every fighter. If there was no round-scoring, we have to assume we'd see different tactics from the fighters and their teams. We can't watch a UFC fight and then talk about what would've happened if they fought under PRIDE rules.

Shogun would have won that UFC 104 fight, but maybe Machida would've conserved energy to make a better impression at the end. I doubt it, personally. Same for Reyes. But we cant know for sure. Benefit of the doubt.

It's like people that complain about the Electoral college in America and complain when the popular vote loses. It's one or other.

I scored the fight for Bones.

 

[Do better]

I think a lot of the discrepancy between Reyes and Jones underscores a fundamental difference in ideology between fight fans. I also think it underscores a fundamental difference in comprehending the point of a fight to begin with.

Lest we all forget, the end of the day, the entire point of a fight is to determine WHO IS THE BETTER MAN.

The "sporting" aspect of a fight is designed to make it all safe, to make sure no one gets killed (or permanently injured), blah blah blah ... but let us not forget the entire point of a fight is to determine who who is the better man.

Fight stats, Compu-box quotas, etc., only determine (imperfectly) ... how many punches were thrown, how many landed, how many power shots, etc. These statistics do not, in ANY way determine the intangibles of who actually won the fight.

Let us all agree that the idea of any fight is a) to finish; and/or b) to thoroughly dominate.

Many (ignorant, biased, woefully-misinformed) people believe that "landing punches" is the only way to break a fight outcome down.

These people have no comprehension that forward pressure, not letting an opponent rest, economy of movement (compared to an opponent's wasted movement) ... and all manner of other subtleties ... can break a fighter just as surely (and even more surely) then can landing punches.

That said, of the two fighters Saturday night, Jones and Reyes, Jones' constant forward pressure, constantly not letting Reyes rest ... were having a more debilitating effect on Reyes ... than any punch or kick (or series of punches or kicks) that Reyes threw at Jones.

The absolute forward, dominant pressure of Jones was gradually breaking Reyes' spirit and manhood. Reyes, the young buck, was constantly (even desperately) backpedaling, giving ground, and praying for the bell to ring ... while Jon Jones was methodically trying to hammer that ass. Reyes was happy that the 5th and final bell rang; Jones was not.

In a fight to the death, Jon Jones kills Dominic Reyes.

The lack of agreement between "sporting fans" (who count "how many times Reyes 'touched' Jones") ... versus true fight fans (who calculate Alpha-Malehood, DOMINANCE, and IMPENDING MOMENTUM) can't ever come to terms because they value different critera.

I would say that those fight fans who "count points" aren't really fight fans at all. They are pretenders and casuals.

True fight fans want to know who finishes whom, who is TRULY the better man.

While many people may disagree "who outed-pointed whom," in the Jon Jones vs. Dominic Reyes fight; I don't think too many people would argue about "who would win a fight to the death, no time limit."

IMO, Jones is the true champion, because he asserted himself throughout the fight ... he made Dominick Reyes give ground and hide ... and while Dominic may have "out-pointed Jones" ... he was mostly trying to avoid the danger zone ... especially toward the end.

The former paradigm is what champions are made of.

The letter paradigm is what pretenders are made of.

You made decent points but you sound like a douchenozzle! You can't say that a person isn't a fan of they disagree and come out looking like you have a clue. That said, Jones 3-2 or a draw

 

[Broke Lester]

Still not a 10 8 bud

We have differing opinions, but at the end of the day, respectfully, our opinions don't mean shit. They're both young, they both want the rematch, at some point it will be settled.

This fight could be described as follows:
It's like screwing a girl hard and fast for 3 minutes, then losing your hard on and neither of you achieves an orgasm. Technically you screwed her, will she call you back to screw her again? Probably not. So is that a win or a loss?

 

[Mamou]

Really? Yes he threw more but landed less.
It was only in the fourth when Jones snatched the momentum, landing 20 of 34 (58%) compared to Reyes who landed 13 of 41 (31%). In the fifth, Jones landed 26 from 34 strike attempts (76%) compared to Reyes who landed 21 from 46 (45%).

There's more to it than just landing strikes, If I were to land 60 strikes on you, but you land 1 on me that knocks me on my ass, who won that round? It was a close fight, I would've been happier if Reyes got the nod, however I don't think it's a robbery. It seems like they both want the rematch, we'll see what happens.

You would've won the round because 1 strike doesn't cancel out 60.

And lol at thinking Reyes was only running despite throwing more strikes than Jones. Does that means Jones was panic wrestling because he had more TD attempts?

 

[UrG00d]

If we want to live in imagination land, I am quite certain that Jones would have won a 7 round fight. Odds are that he finishes Reyes in the 6th.

 

[DagOban**]

The fighter that wins on points, wins the fight.

 

[tenniswhiz]

It's not a fight to the death and forward pressure is irrelevant if you're losing the standup and getting you're takedowns stuffed in those rounds.

I'll just leave this here for you

You’re preaching to the choir.

You should post that on the judges’ forum instead.

 

[Harlekin]

Has anyone already mentioned that TS has never trained and doesn't know shit about footwork?

 

[Ramon Antonio]

Then it would be a draw. Neither man died or looked like they were about to die. Jones only has boring (gifted) decision wins lately anyway.

 

[Twixt]

Except it's a sport and it's based on points so everything you said was retarded.

 

[Broke Lester]

You would've won the round because 1 strike doesn't cancel out 60.

And lol at thinking Reyes was only running despite throwing more strikes than Jones. Does that means Jones was panic wrestling because he had more TD attempts?

You're just being silly now .According to you:

Throwing punches> landing punches. So the future of mma is guys standing on the spot and throwing combos in the direction of the other fighter without landing, but whoever has a higher punch count gets the round?

Taking a guy down to obtain a more dominant position while winning the exchanges = panic wrestling( panic wrestling is a term used for guys who can't actually wrestle, see Conor v. Diaz 1)

Knockdown over more strikes landed in a round is pretty much universal, 9-9 round at best.(make a poll if you don't believe me)

Be honest, you much did you lose betting on Reyes? If it makes you feel better, the money you lost didn't come to me.

 

[Connor McGregor]

Gus hospitalized Jones.

 

[Mamou]

You're just being silly now .According to you:

Throwing punches> landing punches. So the future of mma is guys standing on the spot and throwing combos in the direction of the other fighter without landing, but whoever has a higher punch count gets the round?

Taking a guy down to obtain a more dominant position while winning the exchanges = panic wrestling( panic wrestling is a term used for guys who can't actually wrestle, see Conor v. Diaz 1)

Knockdown over more strikes landed in a round is pretty much universal, 9-9 round at best.(make a poll if you don't believe me)

Be honest, you much did you lose betting on Reyes? If it makes you feel better, the money you lost didn't come to me.

Nope

You said Reyes ran all 4th and 5th yet he still threw more strikes than Jones. You're reaching, which is why I said Jones was panic wrestling, which was a joke. And Jones didn't really land in a dominate position, Reyes actually got right back up and landed a hard shot on the break IIRC.

If someone lands 60 strikes over 5 minutes and someone lands one and just knocks the person down, the person that landed 60 strikes wins the round. A knockdown is great, but with that once strike, there's no intent to finish or even the possibility to finish because it's only a knockdown, not a knockout. It's not boxing, it's not an automatic 10-9 for a knockdown. Hate to break it to you.

And I didn't bet on this fight, so that has no bearing on my opinion, nor would it if I actually bet. I watched the fight and understand how fights *should* be scored

 

[Broke Lester]

Nope

You said Reyes ran all 4th and 5th yet he still threw more strikes than Jones. You're reaching, which is why I said Jones was panic wrestling, which was a joke. And Jones didn't really land in a dominate position, Reyes actually got right back up and landed a hard shot on the break IIRC.

If someone lands 60 strikes over 5 minutes and someone lands one and just knocks the person down, the person that landed 60 strikes wins the round. A knockdown is great, but with that once strike, there's no intent to finish or even the possibility to finish because it's only a knockdown, not a knockout. It's not boxing, it's not an automatic 10-9 for a knockdown. Hate to break it to you.

And I didn't bet on this fight, so that has no bearing on my opinion, nor would it if I actually bet. I watched the fight and understand how fights *should* be scored

Your hate for Jones has made you delusional.