WINNING 'ON POINTS' vs. WINNING **THE FIGHT**

[PitDoggMMA]

Lol that's not how it works. 10+ more strikes than your opponent in a round is an advantage, landing more strikes and stuffing all takedowns in the round is an advantage.

Not when you're still running, tired, and scared.

That's like saying, "If I shot a grizzly bear 5x ... ran out of bullets ... was driven into a cave ... have no further weapons ... and he's still coming to kill me ... I 'won' the exchange ... because I made more offensive movements than he did ... "<Lmaoo>

 

[Deleted member 460645]

I make more money in a year than you've made in your life.

I've trained before your pooped in your first diaper.

The fact that you "threatened" to send your credentials ... but didn't ... indicates you're a soft ass with a big mouth.

I have long since outgrown the infantile behavior of "challenging people online."

You really aren't worth my time, in any aspect of anything worth talking about.

The only thing that "angers me" is ignorance + ego. (Knowledge + ego is okay, but not childlike ignorance + ego.)

Have a nice night struggling with your inequities.

This is proof you are a 16 year old.

 

[Merlotte's]

When a younger fighter shoots his best shot and misses more than 50% of his punches it can have a tremendous effect on his confidence. Reyes was scared to commit to punches on Jon midway through the 2nd round because he was no longer confident he could hit his target. He was a mentally defeated fighter before the bell rang to start the third and threw all he had in a desperate attempt to KO the superior champion. And failed. Winning the first minute of a round then conceding the remaining four minutes is not a winning strategy, no matter how many punches you think he landed in those desperate attempts.

What worries me most is Reyes refusal to accept defeat. He will not come back stronger against Jon in a second bout with that approach, nobody has.

 

[PitDoggMMA]

When a younger fighter shoots his best shot and misses more than 50% of his punches it can have a tremendous effect on his confidence. Reyes was scared to commit to punches on Jon midway through the 2nd round because he was no longer confident he could hit his target. He was a mentally defeated fighter before the bell rang to start the third and threw all he had in a desperate attempt to KO the superior champion. And failed. Winning the first minute of a round then conceding the remaining four minutes is not a winning strategy, no matter how many punches you think he landed in those desperate attempts.

What worries me most is Reyes refusal to accept defeat. He will not come back stronger against Jon in a second bout with that approach, nobody has.

At last, somebody with eyes to see.

 

[Broke Lester]

How does this work? If you believe Reyes won 1, 3 and probably 2.. how would Jon Jones still win under a 10 point scoring system

That's the problem, the point system sucks, especially for a championship fight. You are correct that under the scoring system Reyes should get the nod. Just my opinion but if the fight kept going, Jones would've finished him, Reyes was fading fast, he was literally landing single punches and being backed up in the 4th and 5th constantly. Those last 2 could've been scored 10-8 for Jones IMO and probably would of been under the new rules which were not employed that night. This is why they should fight till one quits or gets finished, then there's no argument as to who won.

 

[Broke Lester]

"IF" it went past the 5th it would've been a boxing match. Championship MMA fights are 5 rounds, not fight till the death. You just said that Reyes probably won 3 of 5 rounds, that's all that needed to be said

Does it have to be till the death? Is a KO or ref stoppage not enough. He looked worse in the rounds that he lost than he looked good in the rounds that he won. Look I hate Jones but I don't think you can run away for the last 2 rounds and win the championship. Conor ran in the 2nd fight versus Diaz and got the win, and how did we feel about that? I thought it was bullshit and it wasn't even a championship fight, fuck it wasn't even a eliminator fight.

 

[Mamou]

Not when you're still running, tired, and scared.

That's like saying, "If I shot a grizzly bear 5x ... ran out of bullets ... was driven into a cave ... have no further weapons ... and he's still coming to kill me ... I 'won' the exchange ... because I made more offensive movements than he did ... "<Lmaoo>

This is you right now

There are rules and scoring criteria for fights in MMA and you clearly have zero knowledge of any of it.

 

[HHJ]

OP: Hey lets judge the fight on just now made up rules rather than the official ones,yknow the ones that the fighters were aware of going into the fight

 

[Mamou]

Does it have to be till the death? Is a KO or ref stoppage not enough. He looked worse in the rounds that he lost than he looked good in the rounds that he won. Look I hate Jones but I don't think you can run away for the last 2 rounds and win the championship. Conor ran in the 2nd fight versus Diaz and got the win, and how did we feel about that? I thought it was bullshit and it wasn't even a championship fight, fuck it wasn't even a eliminator fight.

Were rounds 1, 2, and 3 10-9 rounds for Reyes? Were rounds 4 and 5 10-9 rounds for Jones? If you answered yes to both of these, Reyes is the winner because that's how it works. Unless you thought the 4th or 5th was a 10-8, which it wasn't, then it doesn't matter if Reyes ran or not, he won more rounds in your opinion

 

[HHJ]

That's the problem, the point system sucks, especially for a championship fight. You are correct that under the scoring system Reyes should get the nod. Just my opinion but if the fight kept going, Jones would've finished him, Reyes was fading fast, he was literally landing single punches and being backed up in the 4th and 5th constantly. Those last 2 could've been scored 10-8 for Jones IMO and probably would of been under the new rules which were not employed that night. This is why they should fight till one quits or gets finished, then there's no argument as to who won.

lmao at 10 - 8 rounds for jones? what planet are you on?? Did he even get a knock down?
landing single punches? so you mean he was fighting back? sounds like 10- 9 to me
If the fight kept going??? its 5 rounds! who cares if it kept going or not,it doesnt!

 

[Mamou]

View attachment 726431

I'm sure his manager at the local Jack in the Box will let him out of work early...

 

[Thepaintbucket]

That's the problem, the point system sucks, especially for a championship fight. You are correct that under the scoring system Reyes should get the nod. Just my opinion but if the fight kept going, Jones would've finished him, Reyes was fading fast, he was literally landing single punches and being backed up in the 4th and 5th constantly. Those last 2 could've been scored 10-8 for Jones IMO and probably would of been under the new rules which were not employed that night. This is why they should fight till one quits or gets finished, then there's no argument as to who won.

Yes but you are dwelling on possibilities that did not actually happen. What if in round 6 Jon Jones slips on the floor and loses the fight? What if Reyes could've gotten a second wind in round 6 and proceeds to KO Jones.

it's faulty logic man. Either Reyes won three rounds and won the fight or 3 rounds to Jones and he won the fight.

Am I wrong here? Nothing against you btw but you just said Jon Jones deserved it based on round 6 ...

 

[Oooxente]

I think a lot of the discrepancy between Reyes and Jones underscores a fundamental difference in ideology between fight fans. I also think it underscores a fundamental difference in comprehending the point of a fight to begin with.

Lest we all forget, the end of the day, the entire point of a fight is to determine WHO IS THE BETTER MAN.

The "sporting" aspect of a fight is designed to make it all safe, to make sure no one gets killed (or permanently injured), blah blah blah ... but let us not forget the entire point of a fight is to determine who who is the better man.

Fight stats, Compu-box quotas, etc., only determine (imperfectly) ... how many punches were thrown, how many landed, how many power shots, etc. These statistics do not, in ANY way determine the intangibles of who actually won the fight.

Let us all agree that the idea of any fight is a) to finish; and/or b) to thoroughly dominate.

Many (ignorant, biased, woefully-misinformed) people believe that "landing punches" is the only way to break a fight outcome down.

These people have no comprehension that forward pressure, not letting an opponent rest, economy of movement (compared to an opponent's wasted movement) ... and all manner of other subtleties ... can break a fighter just as surely (and even more surely) then can landing punches.

That said, of the two fighters Saturday night, Jones and Reyes, Jones' constant forward pressure, constantly not letting Reyes rest ... were having a more debilitating effect on Reyes ... than any punch or kick (or series of punches or kicks) that Reyes threw at Jones.

The absolute forward, dominant pressure of Jones was gradually breaking Reyes' spirit and manhood. Reyes, the young buck, was constantly (even desperately) backpedaling, giving ground, and praying for the bell to ring ... while Jon Jones was methodically trying to hammer that ass. Reyes was happy that the 5th and final bell rang; Jones was not.

In a fight to the death, Jon Jones kills Dominic Reyes.

The lack of agreement between "sporting fans" (who count "how many times Reyes 'touched' Jones") ... versus true fight fans (who calculate Alpha-Malehood, DOMINANCE, and IMPENDING MOMENTUM) can't ever come to terms because they value different critera.

I would say that those fight fans who "count points" aren't really fight fans at all. They are pretenders and casuals.

True fight fans want to know who finishes whom, who is TRULY the better man.

While many people may disagree "who outed-pointed whom," in the Jon Jones vs. Dominic Reyes fight; I don't think too many people would argue about "who would win a fight to the death, no time limit."

IMO, Jones is the true champion, because he asserted himself throughout the fight ... he made Dominick Reyes give ground and hide ... and while Dominic may have "out-pointed Jones" ... he was mostly trying to avoid the danger zone ... especially toward the end.

The former paradigm is what champions are made of.

The letter paradigm is what pretenders are made of.

Reyes
1
2
3

 

[Broke Lester]

Were rounds 1, 2, and 3 10-9 rounds for Reyes? Were rounds 4 and 5 10-9 rounds for Jones? If you answered yes to both of these, Reyes is the winner because that's how it works. Unless you thought the 4th or 5th was a 10-8, which it wasn't, then it doesn't matter if Reyes ran or not, he won more rounds in your opinion

The problem is that a mma fight shouldn't be scored in the same manner as a boxing match.That system works in boxing cause there are so many more rounds to decide a clear cut winner. To me 4 and 5 should've been a 10-8, jones landed more punches, controlled the action, and walked Reyes down the entire time, reyes was literally just trying to survive. Hypothetically, if the fight would've continued, who would've finished who?

 

[BooBoyMan]

Not when you're still running, tired, and scared.

I could just as easily say Jones looked scared when Reyes did show aggression, and let's not forget when Jon LITERALLY ran with his back turned like twice.

This is not a street fight or fight to the death. It is an MMA fight with rules, and it is scored round by round. The championship rounds are not worth more than the first three rounds.

 

[HHJ]

REYES 1 2 3 THE CHOICE FOR ME AND I SUGGEST YOU LET THAT ONE MARINATE

 

[HHJ]

To me 4 and 5 should've been a 10-8,

 

[Mamou]

The problem is that a mma fight shouldn't be scored in the same manner as a boxing match.That system works in boxing cause there are so many more rounds to decide a clear cut winner. To me 4 and 5 should've been a 10-8, jones landed more punches, controlled the action, and walked Reyes down the entire time, reyes was literally just trying to survive. Hypothetically, if the fight would've continued, who would've finished who?

Jones landed 12 more sig strikes combined in the 4th and 5th round. Reyes landed 11 more sig strikes in the 2nd round and Jones turned his back and ran from him. So by your math, that's a 10-7 then, right?

 

[Iroh]

LOL, when your favorite fighter lost and you know it, you become so desperate to try to change the rules to justify a W.

 

[Broke Lester]

Yes but you are dwelling on possibilities that did not actually happen. What if in round 6 Jon Jones slips on the floor and loses the fight? What if Reyes could've gotten a second wind in round 6 and proceeds to KO Jones.

it's faulty logic man. Either Reyes won three rounds and won the fight or 3 rounds to Jones and he won the fight.

Am I wrong here? Nothing against you btw but you just said Jon Jones deserved it based on round 6 ...

I get what you're saying and technically you're right. If it wasn't a championship fight, I'd say that Reyes got robbed, but to be the champ, you have to win in a more convincing fashion IMO and running for the last 2 rounds isn't convincing to me. It's like coming out of the blocks and taking a early lead only to get passed on the final stretch.