WINNING 'ON POINTS' vs. WINNING **THE FIGHT**

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Reyes won on points and he also won the fight.

 

[Linelo]

It's not a fight to the death and forward pressure is irrelevant if you're losing the standup and getting you're takedowns stuffed in those rounds.

I'll just leave this here for you

Texas commission wasn't using/haven't accepted new unified rules.

 

[PitDoggMMA]

Reyes won on points and he also won the fight.

I agree Reyes won on points.

Jon Jones was the stronger, better man ... who would kill Reyes in a fight to the death ... and had Reyes thankful for the bell at the end of the 5th round.

 

[Taric]

In other sports, when you've already lost the match but score anyway, they call that garbage time points.

 

[Deleted member 460645]

I think a lot of the discrepancy between Reyes and Jones underscores a fundamental difference in ideology between fight fans. I also think it underscores a fundamental difference in comprehending the point of a fight to begin with.

Lest we all forget, the end of the day, the entire point of a fight is to determine WHO IS THE BETTER MAN.

The "sporting" aspect of a fight is designed to make it all safe, to make sure no one gets killed (or permanently injured), blah blah blah ... but let us not forget the entire point of a fight is to determine who who is the better man.

Fight stats, Compu-box quotas, etc., only determine (imperfectly) ... how many punches were thrown, how many landed, how many power shots, etc. These statistics do not, in ANY way determine the intangibles of who actually won the fight.

Let us all agree that the idea of any fight is a) to finish; and/or b) to thoroughly dominate.

Many (ignorant, biased, woefully-misinformed) people believe that "landing punches" is the only way to break a fight outcome down.

These people have no comprehension that forward pressure, not letting an opponent rest, economy of movement (compared to an opponent's wasted movement) ... and all manner of other subtleties ... can break a fighter just as surely (and even more surely) then can landing punches.

That said, of the two fighters Saturday night, Jones and Reyes, Jones' constant forward pressure, constantly not letting Reyes rest ... were having a more debilitating effect on Reyes ... than any punch or kick (or series of punches or kicks) that Reyes threw at Jones.

The absolute forward, dominant pressure of Jones was gradually breaking Reyes' spirit and manhood. Reyes, the young buck, was constantly (even desperately) backpedaling, giving ground, and praying for the bell to ring ... while Jon Jones was methodically trying to hammer that ass. Reyes was happy that the 5th and final bell rang; Jones was not.

In a fight to the death, Jon Jones kills Dominic Reyes.

The lack of agreement between "sporting fans" (who count "how many times Reyes 'touched' Jones") ... versus true fight fans (who calculate Alpha-Malehood, DOMINANCE, and IMPENDING MOMENTUM) can't ever come to terms because they value different critera.

I would say that those fight fans who "count points" aren't really fight fans at all. They are pretenders and casuals.

True fight fans want to know who finishes whom, who is TRULY the better man.

While many people may disagree "who outed-pointed whom," in the Jon Jones vs. Dominic Reyes fight; I don't think too many people would argue about "who would win a fight to the death, no time limit."

IMO, Jones is the true champion, because he asserted himself throughout the fight ... he made Dominick Reyes give ground and hide ... and while Dominic may have "out-pointed Jones" ... he was mostly trying to avoid the danger zone ... especially toward the end.

The former paradigm is what champions are made of.

The letter paradigm is what pretenders are made of.

I'm never reading all of that.

Make cliffs or GTFO

 

[No Skill Gap]

Sorry but that's just retarded. There are rounds, scoring / judges, and decisions for a reason. It's how the sport works.

We can hypothesize the outcome in different rule-sets or comically in a "to the death" scenario, but that's not how this works. The UFC and all relevant MMA in this age, for years, has used the 10 point-must system and 3-5 round matches.

It doesn't matter if Fighter A almost killed Fighter B in round 5 if he lost the first 4 rounds, even if he took significantly less damage in those first 4 rounds. It's how the rules work. Is it kind of bukllshit? Sure on some level. I think we could use a new system, but we adopted the system from boxing and this is how it works.

Also as a side note judges basically never give 10-10 rounds, 10-8 or 10-7 rounds in MMA. It's sort of a problem, and that's more of a problem than being childish and talking about fights to the death or "who the better man was". Not that Jones-Reyes had any 10-8 rounds in it anyway, but I think there is a very real case that rounds 2 or 3 could be called 10-10 if they were "so close" as some believe. But MMA judges are retarded so whatever.

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

I agree Reyes won on points.

Jon Jones was the stronger, better man ... who would kill Reyes in a fight to the death ... and had Reyes thankful for the bell at the end of the 5th round.

I understand what you're saying but that's not how it works. Each round is worth 10 points no matter the number in front of it. Reyes is still new. He's only had 13 fights. I give you that he gassed, but so did Jones in the Gustafsson fight. His cardio got better and so will Reyes. This was his first 5 rounder.

 

[PitDoggMMA]

I understand what you're saying but that's not how it works. Each round is worth 10 points no matter the number in front of it. Reyes is still new. He's only had 13 fights. I give you that he gassed, but so did Jones in the Gustafsson fight. His cardio got better and so will Reyes. This was his first 5 rounder.

Yes, but once again, you can't just judge the round on "punches landed" ... if the relentless pressure of the other fighter debilitates the other more than the "few extra punches thrown."

If the puncher is exhausted and done, then the stronger, more economical fighter WON ... on effective aggression, ring generalship, and defense.

 

[TheJohnnyWalkerEra]

Reyes landed more damaging shots and won 3 rounds

Reyes won on points and damage

 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Yes, but once again, you can't just judge the round on "punches landed" ... if the relentless pressure of the other fighter debilitates the other more than the "few extra punches thrown."

If the puncher is exhausted and done, then the stronger, more economical fighter WON ... on effective aggression, ring generalship, and defense.

It goes by rounds. In rounds one through three, Reyes was the aggressor. and the one with relentless pressure. Jones was literally running away with his back turned. Granted Jones was the Aggressor in the last two rounds but that doesn't mean he wins the whole fight. That's just not how it works. By your logic, they should just fight until one of them dies.

 

[PitDoggMMA]

It goes by rounds. In rounds one through three, Reyes was the aggressor. and the one with relentless pressure. Jones was literally running away with his back turned. Granted Jones was the Aggressor in the last two rounds but that doesn't mean he wins the whole fight. That's just not how it works. By your logic, they should just fight until one of them dies.

Actually, that is what everyone really wants to know.

No true fight fan really cares "who can touch whom 'more frequently' within 25 minutes ..."

True fight fans want to know, "who finishes whom," when the smoke clears.

 

[PitDoggMMA]

You made my night with how butthurt you are over a forum post that I threw out while playing a video game.

Me butthurt? Over you?

lol

You take yourself too seriously.

You don't have the intellect, fight experience, or life experience to matter to me in the slightest.

 

[ifindgifsforjackslack]

A lot of things in the alpha and beta theory have been thoroughly debunked.

The only people still thinking deeply on that as something to aspire to are legit retards who want someone to fuck their wife. For eg; joe Rogan.

The only time it’s acceptable to use that theory is to call someone a beta because it’s basically a synonym for bitch.

The tldr; op is a bitch

 

[PitDoggMMA]

Cool, so

Nah. If you have been a part of MMA the past 5 years you would know that no one cares who finishes who. It's who they like. Doesn't matter if the right man won.

I've been with MMA since the UFC began in 1993 ... and I boxed before the UFC existed ... and before you were a smile on your daddy's face.

Please sit TF down, and shut TF up.

 

[Mamou]

You are actually quite wrong.

Forward pressure and relentless assault can actually be MORE debilitating to one fighter than "number of punches landed" are to the other.

Hence, Jones was fresh ... and still after that ass ... while Reyes was nearly-broken ... avoiding contact and praying for the bell to ring.

Read the scoring criteria, your opinion means nothing because forward pressure does not score points unless there is no advantage in the striking and grappling. Reyes had the striking and grappling advantage in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds.

You are wrong.

 

[masfonos]

PRIDE was better!

 

[Karuzo]

Reyes was happy that the 5th and final bell rang; Jones was not.

Only because Reyes knew he won and Jon knew he lost LMFAO.

Didn't you see Greg Jackson congratulate Reyes before the judges decision? LOLOLOLOL

 

[PitDoggMMA]

Read the scoring criteria, your opinion means nothing because forward pressure does not score points unless there is no advantage in the striking and grappling. Reyes had the striking and grappling advantage in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounds.

Classic insanity and delustion.

I did read the criteria; I explained what the difference was in incredible detail. You (and that other imbecile) cannot comprehend what I am saying.

Debilitated = debilitated.

Weakened = weakened.

Broken = broken.

If a fighter becomes weakened, debilitated, and broken ... it doesn't matter if 'punches' ... or 'pressure' caused the debilitated state.

Reyes was the tired, weakened, broken, debilitated fighter in the end .. while Jones wasn't any of these things.

This means, Jones won the fight ...

You are wrong.

Actually, clown, YOU are wrong ... check the scorecards ... and look at the record.

I was trying to explain (to the dense) WHY there is a misunderstanding as to "how" fights are scored ... but you're too dense and inexperienced to comprehend the subtleties ... even when they're spelled out for you.

Do carry on then

 

[MeatWagon06]

You incredibly stupid f*ck.

I've been with MMA since the UFC began in 1993 ... and I boxed before the UFC existed ... and before you were a smile on your daddy's face.

Please sit TF down, and shut TF up.

There’s the ignorant self-proclaimed “MMA Analyst” again. Trying to force his garbage beliefs/opinions on everyone then getting butthurt if you don’t agree. Begone Douche.

 

[Mamou]

Classic insanity and delustion.

I did read the criteria; I explained what the difference was in incredible detail. You (and that other imbecile) cannot comprehend what I am saying.

Debilitated = debilitated.

Weakened = weakened.

Broken = broken.

If a fighter becomes weakened, debilitated, and broken ... it doesn't matter if 'punches' ... or 'pressure' caused the debilitated state.

Reyes was the tired, weakened, broken, debilitated fighter in the end .. while Jones wasn't any of these things.

This means, Jones won the fight ...




Actually, clown, YOU are wrong ... check the scorecards ... and look at the record.

I was trying to explain (to the dense) WHY there is a misunderstanding as to "how" fights are scored ... but you're too dense and inexperienced to comprehend the subtleties ... even when they're spelled out for you.

Do carry on then

Your whole arguement is that Reyes got tired. Please show me where it says that the fresher fighter wins the round because the the other fighter got tired. Actually, show me where anything you said is in the unified scoring criteria

I've got plenty of time, so I'll wait.