1. We are currently experiencing technical difficulties. For those experiencing login issues, a temporary solution is to clear your cache and cookies on your web browser. We sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.
  2. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »

WINNING 'ON POINTS' vs. WINNING **THE FIGHT**

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by PitDoggMMA, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. PitDoggMMA Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2019
    Messages:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    749
    Location:
    San Dimas, California
    I think a lot of the discrepancy between Reyes and Jones underscores a fundamental difference in ideology between fight fans. I also think it underscores a fundamental difference in comprehending the point of a fight to begin with.

    Lest we all forget, the end of the day, the entire point of a fight is to determine WHO IS THE BETTER MAN.

    The "sporting" aspect of a fight is designed to make it all safe, to make sure no one gets killed (or permanently injured), blah blah blah ... but let us not forget the entire point of a fight is to determine who who is the better man.

    Fight stats, Compu-box quotas, etc., only determine (imperfectly) ... how many punches were thrown, how many landed, how many power shots, etc. These statistics do not, in ANY way determine the intangibles of who actually won the fight.

    Let us all agree that the idea of any fight is a) to finish; and/or b) to thoroughly dominate.

    Many (ignorant, biased, woefully-misinformed) people believe that "landing punches" is the only way to break a fight outcome down.

    These people have no comprehension that forward pressure, not letting an opponent rest, economy of movement (compared to an opponent's wasted movement) ... and all manner of other subtleties ... can break a fighter just as surely (and even more surely) then can landing punches.

    That said, of the two fighters Saturday night, Jones and Reyes, Jones' constant forward pressure, constantly not letting Reyes rest ... were having a more debilitating effect on Reyes ... than any punch or kick (or series of punches or kicks) that Reyes threw at Jones.

    The absolute forward, dominant pressure of Jones was gradually breaking Reyes' spirit and manhood. Reyes, the young buck, was constantly (even desperately) backpedaling, giving ground, and praying for the bell to ring ... while Jon Jones was methodically trying to hammer that ass. Reyes was happy that the 5th and final bell rang; Jones was not.

    In a fight to the death, Jon Jones kills Dominic Reyes.

    The lack of agreement between "sporting fans" (who count "how many times Reyes 'touched' Jones") ... versus true fight fans (who calculate Alpha-Malehood, DOMINANCE, and IMPENDING MOMENTUM) can't ever come to terms because they value different critera.

    I would say that those fight fans who "count points" aren't really fight fans at all. They are pretenders and casuals.

    True fight fans want to know who finishes whom, who is TRULY the better man.

    While many people may disagree "who outed-pointed whom," in the Jon Jones vs. Dominic Reyes fight; I don't think too many people would argue about "who would win a fight to the death, no time limit."

    IMO, Jones is the true champion, because he asserted himself throughout the fight ... he made Dominick Reyes give ground and hide ... and while Dominic may have "out-pointed Jones" ... he was mostly trying to avoid the danger zone ... especially toward the end.

    The former paradigm is what champions are made of.

    The letter paradigm is what pretenders are made of.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2020
  2. Chael_Sonnen I'm the reason Waldo is hiding. Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2019
    Messages:
    5,223
    Likes Received:
    7,434
    Location:
    West Linn
    [QUOTE="who calculate Alpha-Malehood[/QUOTE]
    Dude, you know your wrong when those words come out of your mouth.
    Reyes 123.
     
  3. HHJ Fuckin' SHOOTOUT

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2004
    Messages:
    108,934
    Likes Received:
    40,342
    Location:
    Away from here
    If you have to say "In a fight to the death" then it immediatley invalidates any opinion you have on this fight.
    REYES 123
     
  4. The DanaWhite Pink Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,006
    Likes Received:
    57
    i totally agree. you can argue dom won 3 rounds but man vs man. martial artists vs martial artists jon won. Dom laid all his cards out right away and jon matched them and had a spare deck still left in his pocket. Jon took all he had and was putting it on him. If it was a fight until some1 was finished fight we all know who was done and who was gunna finish the other.
    anyways i got jon 345. The striking was close enough to factor in cage control and jon def won that. Randy couture fails on a shot and holds a guy on the fence it counts as points so same for jonny
     
  5. Mamou Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Location:
    Southern California
    It's not a fight to the death and forward pressure is irrelevant if you're losing the standup and getting you're takedowns stuffed in those rounds.

    I'll just leave this here for you

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Mamou Black Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2008
    Messages:
    6,511
    Likes Received:
    1,215
    Location:
    Southern California
    Lol exactly
     
  7. PitDoggMMA Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2019
    Messages:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    749
    Location:
    San Dimas, California
    Dude, you know your wrong when those words come out of your mouth.
    Reyes 123.[/QUOTE]

    If you begin a sentence with, "dude," you are the one who can't comprehend combat ... same as you can't differentiate between you're and your.
     
  8. oldschoolmmafan PEOPLE=SHIT

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Messages:
    5,503
    Likes Received:
    1,543
    Location:
    Gotham
    tenor.gif
     
  9. PitDoggMMA Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2019
    Messages:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    749
    Location:
    San Dimas, California
    You are actually quite wrong.

    Forward pressure and relentless assault can actually be MORE debilitating to one fighter than "number of punches landed" are to the other.

    Hence, Jones was fresh ... and still after that ass ... while Reyes was nearly-broken ... avoiding contact and praying for the bell to ring.
     
  10. The DanaWhite Pink Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    2,006
    Likes Received:
    57
    I understand dom allegedly landed 6 more strikes than jon in round 3. But thats not what wins the round. Its damage inflicted. I personally dont see round 3 as a clear round were dom did more damage than jon. I honestly think it was a pretty even round damage wise. Once you factor in the even damage then you can factor in the cage control and jon had that. Where ever they went in that cage it was because jon took him there. jon 345
     
  11. mooseman17 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2009
    Messages:
    7,819
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    I see the heavies is still retarded as ever
     
  12. Sickbro69420 Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,182
    Likes Received:
    1,520
    REYES 123
     
  13. 2004 account For a fair sport/true mma fan, ain't no shill Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2018
    Messages:
    8,135
    Likes Received:
    4,826
    Hell yeah, the only thing sadder than a keyboard warrior is a Stats mental gymnast
     
  14. Emjay I'LL BE RIGHT THERE!!! DON'T KILL HIM!!!

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    33,706
    Likes Received:
    2,419
    Show me this
     
  15. D'z Me against 40 of you?...A fair fight! -Big L

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2016
    Messages:
    6,726
    Likes Received:
    4,884
    Location:
    Humboldt County by way of Philadelphia
    I think we just found one Jones' sherdog accounts.
    <{fry}>
     
  16. Toad Rogan Ribbit

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    75
    "MMA Analyst" lol

    "true fight fans (who calculate Alpha-Malehood, DOMINANCE, and IMPENDING MOMENTUM)" lol

    It this some awful satire or something?

    This isn't a fight to the death. Reyes was never in serious trouble and won 3 rounds of a 5 round fight. Jones literally turned his back to run several times in the fight.
     
  17. Volador Black Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2011
    Messages:
    6,656
    Likes Received:
    17,096
    This type of analysis is wrong as fuck.

    These two men participated in an athletic contest with a defined rule set. The rules state that the fight is scored round by round, not as a whole.

    Whatever impression within some invented metric doesn’t matter. The point people are making is that, under the current rules, Reyes got the victory taken away from him unjustly. If the rules were different, and the fight was judged as a whole, the strategy and the fight would’ve been different.

    In soccer you get games where a team wins 1-0, because they shot once in 90’ and scored, while they barely survived the rest of the match due to defense and dumb luck. However, under the rules of soccer, they still win, regardless of the perception of who was better. In my opinion Reyes was both better and also won under the rules agreed to the fight.
     
  18. PitDoggMMA Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2019
    Messages:
    1,392
    Likes Received:
    749
    Location:
    San Dimas, California
    No, you're wrong as fuck.

    Part of the judging is ring generalship and effective aggression.

    If one fighter's forward pressure + threat of harm makes the other fighter more debilitated in the end ... than another fighter's backward-pedaling strikes ... who ACTUALLY is the better fighter?

    Who ACTUALLY broke the other fighter down?
     
  19. Emjay I'LL BE RIGHT THERE!!! DON'T KILL HIM!!!

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Messages:
    33,706
    Likes Received:
    2,419
    Effective aggression != threat of harm
     
  20. Thepaintbucket Gold Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    16,998
    Likes Received:
    3,016
    Who the hell would score round 3 for Jon Jones? Dom started off aggressive in the first half of the round. He had Jon Jones running by throwing the more meaningful strikes. In the later half of the round Jon Jones came forward; threw a high kicked (blocked), attempted a take down (failed) and the rest of his strikers were lower knee kicks and pawing Jabs. Dom got the better of that round easily.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.