Winning by advantage? Old ryan hall match

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by JonTheJudger, Jun 11, 2008.

  1. JonTheJudger Gouki

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    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/AYwinFNjF-E&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/AYwinFNjF-E&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    It was 2-2. But Ryan hall wins by an advantage. was it from that triangle attempt in the last few seconds??? IMO, it was far from being sunked in since the time elapsed.

    I'm even wondering how many advantages were scored in the match? I'm assuming Renato got one with the near guard pass at 5.00 and Ryan got one when almost taking the back at 5.55 so it would make sense that he wins with 2-1 on the advantages...

    While i'm on the topic, what do you guys think about advantages, cause they seem they can really be subject to biase... like i'm sure that triangle that ryan sunked in could have been more of a threat had in been another like 10 seconds in, or maybe not even at all cause Renato could have escaped really fast.

    Brazilian Jiujitsu and Submission Grappling Tournaments

    "1) Advantages are submission attempts that posed a real threat to the other fighter, near takedowns, near sweeps, near passes etc. Advantages will only be used in the case of a tie with points."
     
  2. kid dynamite STOP! Bottom Brick!

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    that shouldn't have been an advantage, the time WAS over
     
  3. Gordinho Green Belt

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    i would give renato 2 takedown. but i cant see it from the angle.
     
  4. kenban judan orange belt, i think

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    renato wasn't happy, that's for sure
     
  5. batman69 Purple Belt

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    i had renato up by an advantage if not by two points for that last takedown, and that triangle wasn't close. if it was then the two i threw at my last opponent just to make him move would have got me advantages and they didn't. this has nothing to do with it being "ryan" and just that i would would have scored it differently, which may be why it's good i am not a ref.
     
  6. codemonkey76 Black Belt

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    finish by sub, and it won't be a probem... ref's are always imperfect and some times downright biased.
     
  7. anaconda Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

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    They usually give advantages if the guy defends. E.g., if you have a collar choke on me, if I use my hands to try to defend it and pull your hands off then you get an advantage.

    At least, thats the way I understand it.
     
  8. whipyourasstyle Exitus acta probat

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    I was at this match. The whole thing was absolute BS.

    They gave it to ryan because . . . they flew him in for that match (read payed his way to be there):redface:

    NAGA does not keep track of advatage points, suddenly he won by advantage (only one scoreboard). It should of, if anything, went to OT.

    What about the two knee bar attempts, they were just as close as the triangle? (read not close at all)

    What about the last TD?

    Plus the time was called much earlier than the stopage of the action, you can see when renato stops fighting, ryan adjusts the traiangle.

    They were riding his dick all day, the naga guys (in the red shirts) were even helping him warm up.
     
  9. bjjholland1980 White Belt

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    Some of you morons clearly have no idea how to score a match.

    Renato was awarded 2 points for the double leg he got on Ryan's guard pull in the beginning of the match. He would likely have been awarded an advantage for the near pass he had (directly before Ryan inverts to defend), as well. It is now 2-0 Renato with one advatage, as well.

    Ryan was awarded 2 points for his arm drag to boot scoot takedown. He would also have been given an advantage for the near back control/RNC. It is now 2-2, with one advantage each.

    According to CBJJ rules, Renato would have been awarded an advantage had he managed to stand up with Ryan's leg or put him to his hip with his sweep attempt.

    There was no second takedown. Ryan shoots a sweep single leg and then pulls inverted guard as Renato defends. Immediately, he locks on a triangle. Under NAGA rules, this submission attempt is awarded with 1 point (even if it is not completely locked--that would be 2 points). Under CBJJ rules, Ryan would have been awarded an advantage for the attempt (even if it is not completely locked, which it ended up being). The score is now 3-2 (NAGA) or 2-2 w/ 2adv-1adv for Ryan (CBJJ).

    The match clearly ends 3-2 for Ryan under NAGA rules. There was no controversy. Under CBJJ rules, the score could have been 2-2 with 2 advantages each at the worst. Ryan might have gotten the decision for his near submission and cleaner takedown, Renato may have gotten the decision for his maintaining top control for the better part of the fight.


    Either way, it was close. No doubt about that. This said, there was no "cheating" or unfair decision. Some of you need to grow up and actually work to accomplish something rather than (poorly) dissecting a match that is years old and complaining about the result because the person in question (Ryan) makes you feel inadequate by comparison. It was a great, competitive match. Try to appreciate it for what it is.
     
  10. bjjholland1980 White Belt

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    Also, the kneebar attempts were not close whatsoever. Ryan figure-foured his legs to protect immediately before anything came of them. The triangle, however, was extremely close. It was locked as time expired, and with 20 more seconds, it likely would have been finished.

    "Whipyourasstsyle":

    Are you twelve or something?:rolleyes:
     
  11. kenban judan orange belt, i think

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    i was also there, and one thing no one really noticed is how ryan ran up to that little annoying little girl or boy or whatever had that annoying whiny little voice that was behind the camera and headstomped that shit over and over again.
     
  12. whipyourasstyle Exitus acta probat

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    Or something . . .


    Again I was at this tournament. It WAS a bit biased in favor of Mr. "Ryangles" in more than the reffing . . . so what, I calls it like I sees it. Relax I did not try to take the kids balls out of your mouth, no need to get your panties in a twist.

    Have a good day :icon_chee
     
  13. batman69 Purple Belt

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    like i said in my post, my scoring has nothing to do with it being "ryan", and everything to do with how i saw the match(which i went back and rewatched. the last "takedown" which i see on the third viewing isn't a takedown, i said was because i thought renato had placed his far arm on ryan's leg as he pulled the guard. the triangle is still no closer to being a finish than the kneebars so if they score the kneebar scores.) . i've seen a few of "ryan's" epic world wars on the tatami mats and can't say i have ever found myself second guessing the points or reffing except in this case. so now since it's "ryan" no one can have a differing opinion on how the bout should be scored lest they be guilty of player hating?
     

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