Will we ever see LHW Cain?

YES Cartwheel

YES Cartwheel

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Just imagine if he dropped 35lbs...do you think he would give up the natural advantages he has by being so well conditioned and fighting at heavyweight? Or do you think his main skills would become even more fluid? I just thought of this with all the Jones vs Cain shit I've been hearing for the past 24 hours. There's been lots of threads about how Jones would do at HW (many people think he is of a frame more suited for this weight class)...but not a lot of threads about Cain at LHW. He seems to carry around SOME excess body fat...not as much as Cormier did at HW...I think he would have a better cut than Cormier to tell you the truth. And it might be easier on his body to compete at a lighter weight with all the hard driving and level changes he does.

Anyway, feel free to discuss. How would he do? Who would he beat at LHW? Who wouldn't he beat?
 
estranged said:
I think he can make it, but why?
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Just for the sake of discussion, really. Say miraculously, his buddy Cormier retires....Jones starts talking trash about Cain....some hype starts building about a possible fight between them...Cain is out long enough with his injuries to be stripped of the title and realizes competing so heavy is really hard on his nagging injuries. There could be a combination of things. There's been a lot of fighters successful at a certain weight class that have decided to go up and down classes. But with taking all these 'hypotheticals' out of the equation and just making this a discussion based on pure speculation...how do people think Cain would do at LHW?
 
No. We also won't see HW Jones.
 
it would be pretty stupid for him to drop down. why would the heavyweight champion drop down? it's the fighters that weigh less that are supposed to move up, if they're that good.
 
Huligani said:
No. We also won't see HW Jones.
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But Jones is a couple fighters away from cleaning out the division. Pretty soon, people are gonna be pressured by the brass to drop down or go up in weight to get good, marketable fights for Jones, or he will let his own success go to his head and try to become a two-division champ.

The idea has at least been played with on Jones' end...so it's not that far fetched. And even before he entertained the idea himself, people were making threads about it. This is what brings me to my question about a Cain weight drop.
 
Most HWs are somewhat one dimensional (compared to fighters in lower classes). They are great in 1 martial art, average in others and have an average cardio. Being able to enforce the gameplan around their strengths and finish the opponent is critical for them.

Even DC did not look that great against fighters like Mir or Nelson who had enough skill to avoid getting finished, but he is head and shoulders above most top HWs in that regard because he has good boxing and speed in addition to his great wrestling.

Cain is like a bigger LHW fighter fighting against those HWs. For him finishing an opponent is an option, not the goal. He uses his wrestling, striking, cardio and pressure to dominate opponents. In lower weight classes that is expected so Cain will have more trouble with the top opponents considering he is not known for 1 punch KOs or submissions. He may still very well be the best, but he will have much more trouble against Jones than Werdum, Browne, etc.
 
IIIIIIII said:
it would be pretty stupid for him to drop down. why would the heavyweight champion drop down? it's the fighters that weigh less that are supposed to move up, if they're that good.
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Yeah but say Cain makes it back in time to fight Werdum and just dummies him in there...who the hell is gonna be viable competition for Cain? Someone that can actually sell a HW fight with him? Cain/JDS IV? V? IX? XXV?
 
Fight Professor said:
Cain is like a bigger LHW fighter fighting against those HWs. For him finishing an opponent is an option, not the goal. He uses his wrestling, striking, cardio and pressure to dominate opponents. In lower weight classes that is expected so Cain will have more trouble with the top opponents considering he is not known for 1 punch KOs or submissions. He may still very well be the best, but he will have much more trouble against Jones than Werdum, Browne, etc.
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Wow, the first real, thought out response. Thank you for that. You got him on the submissions, but is Jones known for 1 punch KO power? I think if Cain got Jones down, Jonny would be in just as much trouble as his opponents usually are when he's raining down bows.
 
YES Cartwheel said:
Yeah but say Cain makes it back in time to fight Werdum and just dummies him in there...who the hell is gonna be viable competition for Cain? Someone that can actually sell a HW fight with him? Cain/JDS IV? V? IX? XXV?
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so have jones move up. or have gustafsson move up, if he ends up beating jones and wins the title. cain gains nothing by cutting weight to fight a smaller fighter. if the ufc offers cain TONS of money to cut down to fight jones, then maybe. but as far as professional accomplishments, the heavyweight title is the end-all in mma.
 
YES Cartwheel said:
Wow, the first real, thought out response. Thank you for that. You got him on the submissions, but is Jones known for 1 punch KO power? I think if Cain got Jones down, Jonny would be in just as much trouble as his opponents usually are when he's raining down bows.
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What I am saying is if Jones is able to apply more pressure than Cain can counteract, Cain might be at a disadvantage. It is not the situation he has encountered yet. The JDS 1 fight for me was just a bad gameplan and a possible injury.

Cain will certainly keep going for takedowns but he never over-commits himself. Jones will get up for sure and might have tools to counteract those takedown attempts which looked somewhat careless in the JDS 2 fight. It was not a big risk against Junior but would be against Jones.
 
Fight Professor said:
What I am saying is if Jones is able to apply more pressure than Cain can counteract, Cain might be at a disadvantage. It is not the situation he has encountered yet. The JDS 1 fight for me was just a bad gameplan and a possible injury.

Cain will certainly keep going for takedowns but he never over-commits himself. Jones will get up for sure and might have tools to counteract those takedown attempts which looked somewhat careless in the JDS 2 fight. It was not a big risk against Junior but would be against Jones.
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Yes, but the reason everyone thought Cormier was going to beat Jones (speaking about the pros, not the Internet community), is cause they thought DC would apply that Cain-like gameplan to really stifle Jones' activity. To get in close and stick to him so his range and variety of striking would be nullified. But they were forgetting that DC has never shown above-average conditioning. Cain has. If Cain could execute the gameplan everyone thought Cormier was going to bring out in that fight, and execute it well...Jones would be fighting the kind of fight he's never been in before.

To me, the only thing that can defeat Jones is pressure. Gus came close to out pressuring him...Cormier theoretically should have.....Cain is the KING of pressure. For how much talk Cormier did about 'the grind'...dude just didn't have the steam to impose his will. Cain would, in my opinion.

Jones is always referred to as a freak athlete...Cain is a freak athlete as well. I think it's interesting to think of how this would play out in Jones' turf, though. I think maybe the only thing Cain would give up in the weight cut is some top pressure and clinch pressure. The whole reason people thought DC would beat Jones is cause they thought "welp, he trains with Cain. He is gonna go in there and Cain Velasquez him'. Well...I think the only person that could do that is the man himself...and he has just the skill set that is kryptonite for Jones.

But I also agree that this will never happen. Just interesting to discuss.
 
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