Discussion in 'Muay Thai and Kickboxing' started by Fonx, Oct 17, 2013.
One of the events I looked forward to the most each year was the K-1 world GP. I can
K-1 had good promo videos and all that, if you spoke Japanese. They didn't even have a real English commentary team. That also hampered their syndication efforts (20yrs in business and all they had to show for was a spot on EuroSport and HDNet?!). They could have made millions on DVD sales alone, given their extensive video library, but they didn't. You couldn't even find English K-1 DVDs if you wanted to, PRIDE had an English commentary team, production, and they sold DVDs/PPVs.
As for the WGP format,
The tournament format takes up too much time/space, which is why K-1 could only concentrate on 2 weight-classes. They missed the ship big time. They could have cashed in on so many other fighters, so many more weight-classes, and it would actually have been more likely that a Japanese would have been the champ of a lower weight-class (which is what they always wanted, and the Japanese fans wanted).
Furthermore, their WGP qualifiers were done in co-promotion with local orgs, and thus there was huge inconsistencies in production value and setup. That hurts the brand a lot, and certain shows looked way cheaper than others.
The WGP format also meant that there would only be a small pool of elite fighters, and while there were thousands of matches, most of the newcomers would just come-and-go. Just see how recently 1 fighter, Schilt kept becoming champ over and over again (over the other 16). Now think how the pool of the same 10 or 12 fighters kept occupying the Finals over and over again. It eventually made K-1 hugely boring for casual fans.
The tournament format also meant that eventually, you're just watching the same fighters fight each other over and over again. The excitement and thrill that people normally associate with fighting, was no longer there. Imagine boxing, where everyone wants (wanted) to know whether Floyd can beat Pac, or Pac can beat Floyd, and say whether Amir can beat either. But if it were K-1, Floyd has already beat Pac 3x, Pac has beat Amir 5x, and Amir has beat both 2x.
The WGP format was K-1's rise but also its demise. I love watching tournaments, but my business and commonsense side tells me its its bad for the sport and org (the model is susceptible to stagnation). Glory (and K-1) needs to adopt the Boxing/UFC model of singles-matches, multiples weight-classes, and championships in those weight-classes. Best option would be to adopt the PRIDE model, and hold singles-match events all year round, and a GP tournament once in a while.
Tournaments all bullshit anyways. More than one fight in one night is just an another avenue for the promoters to stack the odds in favor of who they want to win.
I know its bad for business and thats why UFC never does them anymore but they were fun nontheless, just like the Pride GPs.
Also having the same people over and over increase their value imho as it proves that its really difficult to enter that crop of fighters. Each year there was one or two new faces and it was never like they come in and beat everyone, it was more like they get there and they were still a level behind the elite, which I think helps proving that the winner is indeed the best fighter in the world.
Just like the World Cup of soccer or the Champions League or even the NBA, there are always the same teams in the later rounds, its not boring its just being the best. If every time you have new teams on top then it decreases its value as it kind of proves that your win can be a fluke and a one hit wonder.
this is all true, but it is from a business standpoint.
for a fan point of view, K1 put the best shows ever in every combat sport.
About weight class.
They have two weight class, one is the original and the other is for MASATO.
They even bring in ancient Thai champion claiming him to be Thai Rickson Gracie to be crushed.
They expect Masato to win the wjole thing and Kraus spoiled it.
They did plan for new weight class but there were no stars there (only frickin 15 years old
Highschool champions) They expect these high schooler to be next Masato.
But they went bankrupt first, and to this day Kubo and Noiri combined still can't draw shit in Japan.
I absolutely agree with this post, especially the last part, Japanese kickboxers like Sato, Kubo and Hiroya, they are great fighters, but combat sports is really about drawing crowds, and these guys don't do it, they look like every other Japanese fighter fighting style wise, and don't provide any excitement in terms of personality. I think in K1 70kg division, the only other Japanese fighter with some kind of personality would be Kid Yamamoto, he would have been something if his striking skills were up to scratch, but other than that, he drew crowds because he was just wild and aggressive in general.
Im curious as to whether Glory will dip into the ppv market. Maybe December 2014, do a full blown 8 man HWGP. Would be awesome!
No, this isn't just business POV. This is whats good for the sport, period. Kickboxing – just like boxing or MMA – is a professional sport. If it was separate from business, the Tyrone Spong or Schilt would be fighting for free; no, they're doing it for a payday. That PAY ensures they continue to fight. Its the same thing with the org that employess said fighters. They make money, they stay in business; they dont make money, they go the way of FEG/K-1. The former is good for the sport, the latter is bad for the sport. Its not that hard to understand.
More of this "team" jargon, its a throwback to the IFL, and we all know how that worked. There is no comparison between fight-sports and team-sports. Fighting is about the individual and what he does in the ring, its an individual sport. With team sports what you generally see is nationalism and collectivism. So even if its just a few teams who are at the top, the lesser-tier teams will still continue to have support simply because of the country, city, locale they represent.
Its not like that in fighting, in fact if you can't rise than you can't go anywhere, and if you fail you disappear. That doesn't happen in team sports, there is always the same number of competitors, the lesser-tier team can suck ass compared to the Champion but he will still be around. That's not what happens in fighting, you get cut.
They're already in the PPV market. Every single one of their events has been available for sale live on their site. Whats weird is that even though they hold "superfights", they neither air them on free TV nor to their iPPV customers. And coupled with what I've heard from some sherdoggers complaining about the stream quality/buffering, there really doesn't seem to be a reason to buy them.
Bellator is holding their first PPV event, and some people don't even expect that to do good numbers, and you want Glory to hold one too (I'm presuming on TV this time, not iPPV)? They'll do the same numbers as the K-1 PPV's did, i.e, horrible.
If K-1 had lower weight-classes from early on, maybe more Japanese prospects would have trained to become fighters. But they didn't so everyone who wanted a career in this industry went for MMA, and this was long established by the likes of Shooto, Pancrase, RINGS, and later DEEP and PRIDE Bushido.
Its only after the rise of minor Kickboxing orgs sucks as AJKF, NJKF, J-Network but more specifically Krush and RISE, that the Japanese started to develop a larger kickboxing base (at the lower divisions). In fact, even the -63kg MAX tourney K-1 finally decided to build was based largely off of fighters from those aforementioned orgs.
IIRC Glory have said in the past they are interested in PPV in the future. The fact is they really can't do it for a good while, I would guess at least for a couple years. Glory hasn't been big in the US and ppv as a concept doesn't really excist in europe. People pay for cable/premium channels who buy the content and air it, "nobody" buys access for single events.
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