Will there ever be a time when you rank the bellator champ above the ufc champ

Yeah, but I meant that a trainer can objectively say what fighter is better. It says more than random fans stating Champ X is better than Champ Y

Even fighters can tell, but I don't see the relevance.
 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The reality is that UFC divisions are meat grinders that typically house 90%+ of the elite fighters in the world. As such we have a strong evidentiary base when it comes to exercises like ranking a top five or top ten, for the simple reason that these guys compete against one another with regularity. Their encounters provide us with the evidence. If, on the other hand, a fighter does not participate in that meat grinder because they do not compete in the UFC, then the evidentiary base is much smaller and projections about rankings swiftly become divorced from evidence and lapse into simple speculation. I remember reading on this forum that Vitaly Minakov was perhaps the best HW in the world. In reality he may not even have been in the top ten. He certainly wasn't top five. Moreover, when people leave the UFC and go elsewhere they are typically already in decline.

In Lima's case, while he is clearly very good indeed, we just have no clue how we would fare against elite guys in their prime. In the Strikeforce era there were still genuine conversations to be had, but the concentration of talent in a UFC that runs 40 shows per year means that not only am I generally unwilling to rank a non-UFC champ over the UFC champ, but I'm very wary of ranking them even in my top five. I would need to see super compelling evidence first. There are exceptions of course, for example Demetrious and Horiguchi.
 
Sure sometimes the AAA champ could win the world series
 
Nemkov > Jan
Mousasi > Israel
Lima > Usman
Pitbull > Volkanovski
 
If you read back, u will understand

No, I don't see any relevance to your point. I said there's no proof that a UFC champ is better or worse than a Bellator champ (save when one has competed in the other org.). You mentioned coaches could know who's better, but that's a very limted scenario that doesn't work as proof.

I mean unless Nemkov is training with Blachowicz and their coach comes out and says that one is a lot better than the other, it's all irrelevant. And it's even more irrelevant ranking wise because rankings are based on fights.
 
No, I don't see any relevance to your point. I said there's no proof that a UFC champ is better or worse than a Bellator champ (save when one has competed in the other org.). You mentioned coaches could know who's better, but that's a very limted scenario that doesn't work as proof.

I mean unless Nemkov is training with Blachowicz and their coach comes out and says that one is a lot better than the other, it's all irrelevant. And it's even more irrelevant ranking wise because rankings are based on fights.
My point was exactly the example you give about Nemkov. Look, its totally debatable and subjective to compare the champs of two promotions. But,if two champs fight for ATT and their head coach says Champ A is better, that would say a lot for me.
 
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. The reality is that UFC divisions are meat grinders that typically house 90%+ of the elite fighters in the world. As such we have a strong evidentiary base when it comes to exercises like ranking a top five or top ten, for the simple reason that these guys compete against one another with regularity.

Please this your perception of the UFC and is in no way factual. How can you say the UFC has 90% of the most elite fighters in the world when in fact the UFC won't allow any of them to fight outside of the UFC? Other Orgs would gladly be willing to match champion vs champion with the UFC. The only Org that will not accept the challenge is the UFC. If what you believe the UFC has 90% of the elite fighters in the world then why would they be afraid of proving it? Because they brainwashed you and others into believing that BS and would end up being exposed when their champions lose.

Before Strikeforce was sold to the UFC people just like you believed the BS the UFC had the best and Strikeforce fighters wouldn't even be in top 10 in any division. Well 2 years after the Strikeforce sale it was amazing how fast Strikeforce fighters booted UFC fighters out of the top 10 rankings in every division while also taking championships away from the UFC champion.

If the UFC actually had between 70- 90% elite fighters and that was a fact they would not turn down the chance of proving it in every division to rub other orgs noses in it. The UFC never will cause they know they really don't have the best and as long as they have plenty of brainwashed people believing they do they never have to prove it.
 
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