Will Grappling Still Be Effective If...

[Mikey Palangio]

(1) kicks and knees to a grounded opponent where allowed and (2) 12 to 6 elbows and other strikes to the back of the head and the vertebral column were allowed?

I was watching Roberts vs Nash, and near the end of Rd1, Nash was just lying on top of Roberts, who was sitting up against the fence, and I noticed that Roberts hands were free, and he could be smashing elbows on Nash's vertebral column and the back of his head and neck.

Usually strikes from the bottom are not that powerful, but in the position, Roberts had enough space to really do damage.

It made me think, Roberts could lose the fight, just because Nash is laying on top of him, but if strikes to the back of the head and spine were allowed, there is NO WAY in hell that Nash would have been happy staying in that position.

MMA rules make grappling more efficient that it actually is. There are many position were grapplers are super vulnerable, but they are happy staying in those position, because the rules protect them.

 

[cevo]

Kicks and knees to a grounded opponent would probably FAVOUR wrestlers. Can you imagine someone like Khabib getting north-south? Jesus.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

All it would really do is kill off turtle position once and for all. Doesn't affect grappling too much from where it is today. Grappling was still effective with knees to grounded opponents in PRIDE. You just can't stay on bottom very long. It would actually open up more submissions because guys would be REALLY trying to get off the bottom.

 

[Muay Thai #1]

Kicks and knees to a grounded opponent would probably FAVOUR wrestlers. Can you imagine someone like Khabib getting north-south? Jesus.

 

[Muay Thai #1]

I literally thought the same thing while watching it. I REALLY wish knees to a downed opponent would be legal

 

[Gnaww]

I hate to see guys winning rounds with wrestling like that, Nash was just going to spam takedowns and probably steal the 2nd round too, Glad Danny dropped him. Wrestlers who cut a ton of weight get a huge strength advantage, allowing those moves might help sometimes but it works both ways, the guy in the dominant position would benefit the most.

I'm just waiting on these new weight cutting rules, hopefully that helps keep lay and pray from being such a factor.

 

[The Best JG]

<{ByeHomer}>

 

[Bob Gray]

Kicks and knees to a grounded opponent would probably FAVOUR wrestlers. Can you imagine someone like Khabib getting north-south? Jesus.

Ive been saying this since Hughes was champ. People always saying that throwing a knee or something during a failed takedown attempt is gonna trump the wrestlers ability to get in a dominant position. GSP in side control? Hughes getting a crucifix? Christ, wrestlers would LOVE if knees to the head were allowed.

 

[UhHuhSure]

wrestling = the art of controlling your opponent
allowing them to use those strikes on the ground only helps them

 

[Mikey Palangio]

Kicks and knees to a grounded opponent would probably FAVOUR wrestlers. Can you imagine someone like Khabib getting north-south? Jesus.

Can you image a soccer kick to the face when you have one knee on the mat and going for a deep single leg, like Khabib was doing versus Michael Johnson?

I am not trying to diss grappling. I am just making an argument that a lot of its effectiveness is based on the rules.

In a real fight, you don't go to the ground. How do you know the opponents' friends are not going to jump in and smash you in the back of the head?

 

[superpunch]

(1) kicks and knees to a grounded opponent where allowed and

(2) 12 to 6 elbows and other strikes to the back of the head and the vertebral column were allowed?

All I'm gonna say is do you really want 12-6 elbows landing on your spine and the back of your head here?

And as for other strikes that are currently banned:

OP, I think grapplers would do just fine.

 

[UhHuhSure]

Can you image a soccer kick to the face when you have one knee on the mat and going for a deep single leg, like Khabib was doing versus Michael Johnson?

I am not trying to diss grappling. I am just making an argument that a lot of its effectiveness is based on the rules.

In a real fight, you don't go to the ground. How do you know the opponents' friends are not going to jump in and smash you in the back of the head?

Not all wrestling take downs involve the attacker going to the ground. Look at trips, sweeps and hip toss etc

 

[Mikey Palangio]

All it would really do is kill off turtle position once and for all. Doesn't affect grappling too much from where it is today. Grappling was still effective with knees to grounded opponents in PRIDE. You just can't stay on bottom very long. It would actually open up more submissions because guys would be REALLY trying to get off the bottom.

I know grappling is effective in a one on one fight. That is not my argument.

My argument is how much do the rules contribute to that effectiveness?

 

[superpunch]

Can you image a soccer kick to the face when you have one knee on the mat and going for a deep single leg, like Khabib was doing versus Michael Johnson?

I am not trying to diss grappling. I am just making an argument that a lot of its effectiveness is based on the rules.

In a real fight, you don't go to the ground. How do you know the opponents' friends are not going to jump in and smash you in the back of the head?

Derp, Khabib wouldn't do that single leg then. Grapplers exploit the rules like that. The rules LIMIT grapplers and work against them.

Go ahead -- allow knees to the head on the ground, 12-6 elbows to the back of the head and spine from back-mount, groin shots, and headbutts.. See how much that limits grapplers lmfao. Go ahead and make hte mats concrete instead to make it even more realistic while you're at it.

 

[Mikey Palangio]

All I'm gonna say is do you really want 12-6 elbows landing on your spine and the back of your head here?

And as for other strikes that are currently banned:

OP, I think grapplers would do just fine.

You are just showing some video clips and not making any arguments.

All fighters know the rules, so when you are stepping into a fight knowing that the rules are as they are, you will be more willing to do certain things and not others.

Showing a clip of a grappler vs an opponent who has no clue of how to grapple doesn't prove anything.

Even Steven Seagul's Aikido would be effective against a person who has no clue.

My argument is elite vs elite. I gave a context for my argument, and you are going off on a tangent.

 

[Mikey Palangio]

Derp, Khabib wouldn't do that single leg then. Grapplers exploit the rules like that. The rules LIMIT grapplers and work against them.

Go ahead -- allow knees to the head on the ground, 12-6 elbows to the back of the head and spine from back-mount, groin shots, and headbutts.. See how much that limits grapplers lmfao. Go ahead and make hte mats concrete instead to make it even more realistic while you're at it.

Dude, what is the context of the argument I made?

 

[deweydeucalion]

(1) kicks and knees to a grounded opponent where allowed and (2) 12 to 6 elbows and other strikes to the back of the head and the vertebral column were allowed?

I was watching Roberts vs Nash, and near the end of Rd1, Nash was just lying on top of Roberts, who was sitting up against the fence, and I noticed that Roberts hands were free, and he could be smashing elbows on Nash's vertebral column and the back of his head and neck.

Usually strikes from the bottom are not that powerful, but in the position, Roberts had enough space to really do damage.

It made me think, Roberts could lose the fight, just because Nash is laying on top of him, but if strikes to the back of the head and spine were allowed, there is NO WAY in hell that Nash would have been happy staying in that position.

MMA rules make grappling more efficient that it actually is. There are many position were grapplers are super vulnerable, but they are happy staying in those position, because the rules protect them.

It's not the rules that makes wrestling/grappling dominant, it is the skill level of the fighters.
In low level mma wrestling/grappling dominates because low level strikers lack the skill/experience to 1.stop takedowns, 2. get up. 3. Cardio

 

[superpunch]

You are just showing some video clips and not making any arguments.

All fighters know the rules, so when you are stepping into a fight knowing that the rules are as they are, you will be more willing to do certain things and not others.

Showing a clip of a grappler vs an opponent who has no clue of how to grapple doesn't prove anything.

Even Steven Seagul's Aikido would be effective against a person who has no clue.

My argument is elite vs elite. I gave a context for my argument, and you are going off on a tangent.

.. The guy on bottom getting kneed into oblivion had a 42-2 record and is considered one of hte best heavyweights of all time. He was on a 38 fight win streak and was the undisputed no. 1 HW in the world. It was the final round of hte most prestigious MMA tournament in the world.

 

[Mikey Palangio]

.. The guy on bottom getting kneed into oblivion had a 42-2 record and is considered one of hte best heavyweights of all time. He was on a 38 fight win streak and was the undisputed no. 1 HW in the world. It was the final round of hte most prestigious MMA tournament in the world.

Dude, read my initial post, instead of trying to be quick to defend wrestling.

I gave a context for my argument, and you want to list all the successful fighters with wrestling backgrounds. This is not the argument I want to have.

I gave a context. There is a guy laying on top of another guy, and he is not doing anything, but he wins the round for just laying on top of the opponent.

What if the opponent was allowed to strike in the back of the head, neck and spine, how much would that impact the effectiveness of grappling?

The highlights you are showing, how often do they happen in the current UFC compared to situations were a guy is just laying on top of an opponent and hoping to win the round?

 

[CerebralKnievel]

Can you image a soccer kick to the face when you have one knee on the mat and going for a deep single leg, like Khabib was doing versus Michael Johnson?

I am not trying to diss grappling. I am just making an argument that a lot of its effectiveness is based on the rules.

In a real fight, you don't go to the ground. How do you know the opponents' friends are not going to jump in and smash you in the back of the head?

You seem to equate grappling solely to boring wrestling techniques of one-dimensional fighters.