Will anyone rank Pacquioa higher than Floyd if he beats JMM?

[One Time]

After that performance by Floyd over Hatton, there should be no doubt that he is the p4p king right now.

Pacman is my favorite fighter...but he is still a distant 2nd to Mayweather. He doesn't have the defensive pedigree nor the ring generalship of Mayweather.

 

[Sinister]

Really KK? Since when is P4P a measure of a fighter's dominance over a given weightclass?

Not dominance over A given weight class. Dominance over their opponents given weight class as a guideline. Because the notion is since they can't ever fight each other, how are they doing against the best in their respective divisions.

I've always believed that P4P referred to a fighter being the best boxer on the planet, regardless of weightclass. Manny is far from a complete fighter, and if he were to jump up the number of weightclasses that PBF has, he would be tooled in short order IMO.

If that were the case, then Middleweights would still be fighting Heavyweights to be considered the best Fighter alive. Weight-jumping is NOT a requisite of being the P4P best in the World. BTW I disagree about Manny not being a complete Fighter. You don't out-box Barrera at any stage of his career without being complete. And he out-boxed Morales in their second fight handily, not just relying on power, but his defense and ability with his right-hand improved vastly.

By your standards, if PBF went up to HW and got KTFO, he wouldn't rank in P4P any longer because you'd only consider his success against HW's. A bit silly don't you think?

Actually, that's your complete misinterpretation of my "standards". P4P is to eliminate the problem of what would happen if Floyd went up and got KTFO at Heavyweight, not encourage ranking based on it.

Being undefeated is also not a requisite of P4P best, though I do think winning fights is. But it's all about WHO you have fought, and HOW you've beaten them, regardless of weight divisions.

 

[rk16]

if pac-man looks convincing against jmm and floyd loses to de la hoya.but pbf will beat oscar and cotto then retire as one of the greats.

 

[Coster]

I'm pretty certain I'll still have Floyd as #1 P4P after Pacman vs JMM. Maybe by end of the year/beginning of next things could change.

 

[pulpduff]

KK, you sound like a politician, dude, seriously, you should consider a career path change.

...who is more productive against the better Fighters at their current weight. Period.

My misinterpretation huh? Those are your words pally, so the example of Floyd losing @ HW (as that would be his "current" weight") knocking him out of P4P contention is taking your words, and throwing them back @ you.

P4P should tell you who the best boxer on the planet is, regardless of weight. This is NOT to say that feathers have to be able to beat up on HW's but, rather that they are more skilled. I never implied any different.

I am not going to argue semantics with you, because it's a waste of time, I will just point out that in comparing skill sets, PBF is so drastically superior to Pacman, that there shouldn't even be a debate. The fact that you would try to foster that sort of conversation is an indication, not of the validity of the debate, but, rather, how ghostly this forum has become.

A complete fighter, a P4P king, does not have a defence so porous as to allow the clumsiest of opponents hit him in the melon flush again and again.

 

[ssx]

Everyone's got a right to their own opinion, but to me PBF is number 1 until he loses. Did we all forget that he KO'ed Hatton in his last fight? Very impressive. Pacman at a solid number 2.

 

[mschatz]

Everyone's got a right to their own opinion, but to me PBF is number 1 until he loses. Did we all forget that he KO'ed Hatton in his last fight? Very impressive. Pacman at a solid number 2.

Its not that impressive dude. Mayweather was supposed to beat Hatton, and decisively.

 

[slicknickns]

how about this, if Pac wins and Floyd fails to put together a fight against Cotto by the end of this year or very beginning of next year, I'll put Pac ahead of him. If Floyd hasn't signed to fight Cotto by February of 09, I'm def putting Pac ahead

i second this

 

[gomajiri]

Mayweathers quality as a pugilist is unparalleled in the sport today.

Obviously Pac posseses traits and attributes that merit his inclusion on the P4P list. However, Mayweather's skill set is infinately more refined.

Both are beautiful diamonds, however, one has been polished and set.

 

[Sinister]

My misinterpretation huh? Those are your words pally, so the example of Floyd losing @ HW (as that would be his "current" weight") knocking him out of P4P contention is taking your words, and throwing them back @ you.

P4P should tell you who the best boxer on the planet is, regardless of weight. This is NOT to say that feathers have to be able to beat up on HW's but, rather that they are more skilled. I never implied any different.

I am not going to argue semantics with you, because it's a waste of time, I will just point out that in comparing skill sets, PBF is so drastically superior to Pacman, that there shouldn't even be a debate. The fact that you would try to foster that sort of conversation is an indication, not of the validity of the debate, but, rather, how ghostly this forum has become.

A complete fighter, a P4P king, does not have a defence so porous as to allow the clumsiest of opponents hit him in the melon flush again and again.

So, you're blaming me for lack of traffic in the forum in a very passive/aggressive manner just because I disagree with you?

My words had nothing to do with Floyd moving up to HW and losing. Those were YOUR words. A move to Heavyweight for a career lightweight shouldn't even be considered for numerous reasons, which is why I didn't even make any real attempt to entertain the notion. BTW the consensus in here is that Floyd reamins P4P King until he LOSES. Which by your interpretation, means absolutely yes if he moved up to HW and got KTFO, he'd be off the top sport in the P4P rating.

I disagree with that absurd of a notion.

But you can fuck off with your high-horse nonsense about semantics. IMO arguing about P4P status is a definitely viable and fun argument, because people do have different perspectives for different reasons. I'm a traditionalist in that regard, considering the whole term was invented and coined because Sugar Ray Robinson could NEVER fight for the Heavyweight Championship, could never legitimately fight a guy like Joe Louis. Similarly, Pacquiao would have ZERO business fighting a guy like Floyd Mayweather for any reason. So what then do we compare? Skill-set? Get out of here. Floyd is undefeated, yes, and looked impressive against Hatton, sure. But there are guys out there who are skilled in similar senses who don't even get considered. Why? Because no one knows who they fight.

That's why I say it's about WHO you beat and HOW. And I seriously don't get what's so difficult to grasp about that. Would you place Manny Pacquiao in the top P4P AT ALL? Based on your "no defense" crap then no, by no means should he even be considered. Which is absolutely ridiculous. He's beaten some most of THE best JLW's of this generation, porous defense or not. Floyd at his ABSOLUTE best, accomplished the SAME feat when he beat Corrales and Castillo. Since then he's walked over guys who were good and tough Fighters, but not up-and-coming guys who had a lot going for them at the same weight he was at.

It's not just a matter of semantics at all. It's a matter of who has done what. If you can't appreciate that then I don't know what to tell you, your opinion of me aside.

 

[ssx]

I'll just agree with whatever Kid McCoy says....:icon_chee

 

[ssx]

Oops, double post.

 

[Tam-Tam]

P4P is dead and buried. The internet ruined it, with every second asshole having an opinion, it warped and altered what the term actually meant...so now it means "a way to prop my favourites. And no, I don't have to know a thing about the sport, or have actually seen all the best fighters in action. I can say what I want, cos its the interweb and I have a right to my opinion. So fuck you. Warcraft rules".

 

[Diomedes]

P4P is dead and buried. The internet ruined it, with every second asshole having an opinion, it warped and altered what the term actually meant...so now it means "a way to prop my favourites. And no, I don't have to know a thing about the sport, or have actually seen all the best fighters in action. I can say what I want, cos its the interweb and I have a right to my opinion. So fuck you. Warcraft rules".

Baseless internet theory without a funny cat picture to back it up: