Why "Winning before they got KO'd" isn't an excuse

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by EXOICHO, Oct 18, 2019.

  1. kalabula

    kalabula Black Belt

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    Winning before losing is certainly different the getting dominated from bell to bell. I think the narrative is, Weidmans record doesn’t tell the whole story. Which I agree with. He’s better then his record suggests.
     
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  2. IsNormal

    IsNormal Purple Belt

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    Quote of the day.

    Tired of MMA fans who consider all losses equal.
    Seems to me the reason is that a few years ago there was a small click of fans who went too far with the "he was winning before he lost, the KO was just a fluke" argument. They took it too far and created a counter movement - which lead to some fans settling for some kind of black-and-white view where they dismiss all losses as equally bad, repeat mantras like "a loss is a loss!" - and refuse to consider that some losses are less bad than others.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  3. legkicktko

    legkicktko Only the Strong Survive

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    LMFAO. Ok.
     
  4. IsNormal

    IsNormal Purple Belt

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    I often find myself defending Weidman by mentioning he won rounds in most of his losses.
    (https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/teh-chris-aprecciation-thread.4030217/page-2#post-155933479)

    Weidman deserves credit cause he never lost against anyone who was not elite.
    All his losses were against a murderer's row of top 4 level opponents during their prime, and he was competetive.

    But I also must admit that sometimes I rely too much on stats like how many rounds he won.
    Just because he won rounds doesn't mean he did much damage.
    And winning early rounds doesn't mean you're on a path to winning the fight.
    In some cases it seemed Weidman had just won rounds by a slim margin, had not done much damage, but his opponents had invested in a strategy that would pay off in later rounds.

    But the mere fact that he wasn't totally outworked from start to finish, and never lost to a non-elite fighter, still deserves credit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
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  5. GMAN144

    GMAN144 Yellow Belt

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    Was 1-1 going into the third.
     
  6. tenniswhiz

    tenniswhiz Steel Belt

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    All of his losses were related to poor cardio.
    He can’t deal with pressure from a high level fighter when he’s gassed.
     
  7. Gamer2k4

    Gamer2k4 Brown Belt

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    His meaning, Mr. IQ, is that these are people with below-average intelligence but not so much that it's considered a medical disability. If you have an IQ of 92, most people are smarter than you. (Or, if you like, you're stupider than most people.) That's a statistical fact, and saying a smaller number is "basically" a larger number doesn't change that.
     
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  8. mortal

    mortal Purple Belt

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    I don't think "winning before losing" matters when there's a KO involved unless there's something dirty involved. You're lying down unconcious and that's it. The best you can do from there is have a couple of rematches and beat the snot out of the guy who slept you to make a point (if you can of course).
    The night you got slept either the opponent was the better fighter or you were the worse one.

    About skills: Knocking your opponent out requires some skill as well. Not getting ko'd also requires some skill. Add to those that when things matter the most you just wanna stop your opponent (and some times you actually need it).
     
  9. Spiderbite

    Spiderbite Brown Belt

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    No kidding? me too. How 'bout your insecurity? You get that tested yet?
     
  10. Spiderbite

    Spiderbite Brown Belt

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    [​IMG]
    You're firing on all cylinders Bro.

    Now screen grab this to show your boyfriend at Spacecamp how you went to bat for him.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  11. Mightymike1986

    Mightymike1986 White Belt

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    This thread is hilarious. It is fighting, people can be winning the rounds, then get caught with a clean shot or submission at any time. I'm looking forward to the fight tonight.
     
  12. EXOICHO

    EXOICHO Brown Belt

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    you missed the point of the thread. it wasn't disputing that.
     
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  13. DarthBinks

    DarthBinks Me is sith lord. Me kill Kylo & take over !

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    That's like saying you were doing your girl right until you prematurely blew your wad.......nope. You suck you got knocked the F out...STFU....
     
  14. EXOICHO

    EXOICHO Brown Belt

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    projecting much?
     
  15. Demaestro

    Demaestro Brown Belt

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    I totally disagree.

    For example, if I am fighting someone, lets say it's Weidman, and I see something in his movement, footwork or otherwise that I think I can expose to land a devastating blow, or submission and win the fight. To implore this game plan I will have to:

    1) Get him to use the movement I want
    then
    2) Allow this movement to happen

    Sometimes the thing you want him to do, he will only do if he thinks he is winning

    Somethings he will do the thing you want him to do, but you haven't figured out the timing, or managed to be in the right position to properly counter, and so you have to let him take a couple "shots" at it before you get your counter to hit the way you want.

    To achieve these things often time you have to put yourself in a losing position, a bad position, or allow the fighter to control the pace and even lead him to believe he is winning. While really what you are doing is baiting and waiting for your moment.

    You will often times hear a fighter say "I knew if I waited he would do [a thing] and I could beat him, we saw it in film and trained for it"..... That isn't bullspit when they say that.

    I can see why to the fans of fighters that this happens to, it can appear as if they were "winning" the fight before getting KO'd, but really what happened was they got gamed, and the other fighter was just trying to walk his opponent into a trap where he knew he would win. Sometimes that resembles losing, but it isn't, it is game plan execution.

    TLDR; Allowing a fighter to do well so you can trap them doesn't mean they were winning before walking in the trap.
     
  16. Lemmy Caution

    Lemmy Caution Purple Belt

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    There are many reasons why somebody is winning before they are losing. Blowing your wad, for example.

    Foreman was winning before he was KO'd by Ali.

    Winning before losing means nothing without context. E.g. Korean Zombie losing by a flash KO.
     
  17. Franklin U.

    Franklin U. Gold Belt

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    Well , to be fair, there have been instances ( nothing to do with Chris) where the better fighter was winning and by a margin..... before making a fight ending mistake . They are few and far in between but when the circumstance does take place , I do see the point / excuse.

    In easier verbiage- the better fighter doesnt always win.
     
  18. Regal Boy

    Regal Boy Green Belt

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    I am not insecure in my life, dont know where you're getting that from.
     

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