Why was Sonnen jumping back into Silva's guard?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by nni, Aug 9, 2010.

  1. nni

    nni Orange Belt

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    A lot of times in the fight, especially in the 5th round, it seemed like Sonnen passed Silva's guard into side control rather easily. He would then literally jump back into Silva's guard. Why did he do this? Was it because it would be easier for Silva to escape from there and he wanted to keep Silva down at all costs?
     
  2. Alaskantkdkid

    Alaskantkdkid Green Belt

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    Like the existential question "How Many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Roll Pop"; the world may never know.
     
  3. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    i'd say it's actually often easier to land significant blows from inside someone's guard rather than sidecontrol.

    but it all depends on what the guy on the bottom is doing obviously.
     
  4. nni

    nni Orange Belt

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    Yes, that's along the line of what I thought. Since Sonnen wasn't going for subs he probably felt more confident of keeping control if in Silva's guard. Still doesn't explain why he tried to pass it a few times just to jump back in it...
     
  5. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

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    Because he is a wreslter.

    The passing the guard, side control. Knee on the belly, mount, back control is a point system establised and created by the Gracies!!!
     
  6. nni

    nni Orange Belt

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    So he passed the guard to score points and then jumped back in to be in his "safe spot"? I wouldn't think he would need to do that. He was clearly winning every round, even if not doing too much damage to Anderson.
     
  7. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    i think people pass the guard for more than just points. you get mount, the fight can be finished pretty quickly, either by a sub or just raining down on them. same thing from back control. you might be able to put more power into your strikes from the guard, but they can offer very little defense when you have them mounted and there's almost no way for them to tie you up.

    sidecontrol is tricky though. it's hard to get enough space in there to get good powershots going without leaving big openings for your opponent to escape. that's why i like how penn does his stuff on the mat. passes to halfguard, throws shots just to mess the guy up a bit, passes to mount and then starts really raining down.

    sonnen just doesn't have the skill to do it, so he doesn't risk losing control and stays in the guard where he can pound away happily.
     
  8. tysnw

    tysnw Brown Belt

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    However, if I were to be Sonnen, I'd rather take the guard pass, and land in side control, and have a much lower risk of being submitted. Especially looking at Sonnen's past losses; most of them have come of being in the guard.

    Essentially, staying in side control -> less damage but much less risk.
    Guard -> more damage but more risk
     
  9. Fedorzilla

    Fedorzilla Brown Belt

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    it's a point system based on fighting and it makes sense. The reason that side control is less effective in certain cases is because of the rule set in MMA, not that the Gracies set up some arbitrary system. If I could get to side control and just start raining knees to their head, they would be fucking wrecked. Can't do that from halfguard or full guard.

    Sonnen should have stayed in half guard IMO, but whatever


    exactamundo
     
  10. randomg1t

    randomg1t EVERYTIME CHAMPION

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    exactly. being able to throws knees, punches and elbows makes sidecontrol fucking deadly.
     
  11. sha

    sha Geekjitsu Black Belt

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    I think he was doing it to prevent Silva from standing up. When you're in someone's guard, their legs are wide open and your own body is in the middle, preventing the person under from getting his legs together and making base to stand up.

    The only way to stand up from under full guard is the technical stand up, but it wasn't possible since Silva had his body pressed against the cage most of the time, and so didn't have the space necessary to move his body back.

    On the other hand, from under side control you can always get up by turning into your opponent, or turning away even though you risk getting your back taken.
     
  12. RearAndNaked

    RearAndNaked Blue Belt

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    Agree with ^; if Sonnen was a bit more willing/able to understand BJJ then he might be more inclined to pass and maybe go for a crucifix or at least a secure side control. Imagine a Jon Jones/Maty situation.
     
  13. Kozbot

    Kozbot Purple Belt

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    Knees on the ground need to be legalized to make striking from side control more effective
     
  14. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

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    He had some options but if you dont train them I am not sure you can pull them off in a mtach. A reverse half nelson/stockade position may have allowed him some striking chances but again, I am not sure he wanted to risk Anderson getting up. However, in hindsight he may have been better served to try it and see how it went. He was controlling the fight to that point but gambled and stayed in harms way.

    For a fighter with his reputation for being sub'd I am shocked his corner was content to let him sit there in the final round.
     
  15. RibCrusher**

    RibCrusher** Orange Belt

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    agree with he should have stayed in half guard
     
  16. RearAndNaked

    RearAndNaked Blue Belt

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    Yeah I'm surprised he wasn't more willing to a least take a chance on it once or twice (trying for a more dominant position, one with less chance of him being subbed) but I guess you stick with what's comfortable.
     
  17. Demonix***

    Demonix*** Banned Banned

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    Maybe he felt he couldn't hold Silva down as confidently in side control?

    His entire game depended on holding Silva down, at all costs, and to me, it seemed he wasn't nearly as confident in maintaining top position agains Silva as he was in guard.
     
  18. pittelp

    pittelp Smokin Joe belt winner

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    Sonnen (R) needs a corner that he is willing to listen to, he gave 110% trying to gnp but as before he got lost in the gnp and got caught.
     
  19. curb1850

    curb1850 Green Belt

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    Yeah seemed weird to me, he passed then seemed to pop right back in.
     
  20. MrBen

    MrBen Orange Belt

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    To me it looked like he was doing it to prevent silva from escaping back to his feet.
     

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