Why the UFC will never get rid of WMMA or put it on it’s own cards.

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by sdpdude9, Mar 14, 2019 at 7:35 AM.

  1. sdpdude9

    sdpdude9 Green Belt

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    Yes, I made a mistake with the number which I edited. However, it still stands. Cyborg and Holm are the biggest draws WMMA has outside of Ronda and with the support of Khabib managed to get 380k buys. Khabib nearly sold just as many a few months later against a last minute, no name opponent, so clearly he was responsible for a number of those buys. And outside of that, Cyborg did 260k as the next highest, which every current male champion that has headlined a Ppv has done just as many.
     
  2. -Dim-

    -Dim- Gold Belt

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    Khabib only sold 350k next time out because of Conor and the bus


    Cejudo (we dont have numbers yet) - Johnson never went over 260k
    Dillashaw - only just beat it (300k)
    Holloway - has one ppv at 300k, the rest are all well below that 230k v aldo, 200k v aldo and 150k v Pettis
    Khabib - his two ppv's are Conor influenced, we dont know how he will do on his own
    Usman - no numbers yet, Woodley only hit 300k once, his fight against Till did 130k, his fight against Lawler did 250k
    JOnes - consistently beats 300k
    Cormier - consistently beats 300k

    but you continue to misrepresent numbers :D




    I LITERALLY POSTED THE FUCKING FIGURES.. AND YOU STILL IGNORE THE FACT THAT HOLLY HOLM PUTS OUT NUMBERS THAT CONSISTENTLY BEAT THE MEN, AND HAS THE HIGHEST EVER RATED FOX SUMMER SHOW


    WHY DO YOU KEEP TALKING ABOUT CYBORG WHEN THE NUMBERS I HAVE PUT OUT ARE HOLLY HOLMS???

    ( I know, because it doesnt fit your argument)
     
  3. -Dim-

    -Dim- Gold Belt

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    no.

    Conor was the reason he sold 380k

    without Conor attacking the bus that PPV struggled to break 100k

    we will see how well Khabib does when he has to hold a ppv on his own against the winner of Holloway v Poirier.

    It wont break 300k
     
  4. sdpdude9

    sdpdude9 Green Belt

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    Holm’s only pay per view without Cyborg or Ronda did 200k buys, as shown by your own numbers. And as you just showed, each male champion has beaten that number including DJ and Woodley. Cyborg is the best they have and when not supported by another seller (Khabib) she did 260k buys which is on par with all the lower selling champions. And even if you want to say that sold totally on the merit of Cyborg vs. Holm, their best sellers outside of Ronda combined didn’t break 400k. Those aren’t insane numbers.
     
  5. Axefan4life

    Axefan4life Green Belt

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    You are serious? Dumb shit.
     
  6. Geniusss

    Geniusss White Belt

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    TOP 10 Biggest PPV's buys last 2 years:

    1. UFC 229 Mcgregor vs Khabib = 2.400.000k
    2. UFC 214 Jon Jones vs Cormier II = 875.000k
    3. UFC 217 GSP vs Bisping = 875.000k
    4. UFC 232 Jon Jones vs Gustafsson = 700.000k
    5. UFC 219 Cyborg vs Holm = 380.000k
    6. UFC 226 Cormier vs Miocic = 380.000k
    7. UFC 220 Miocic vs Ngannou = 350.000k
    8. UFC 223 Khabib vs laQuinta = 350.000k
    9. UFC 210 Cormier vs Johnson II = 300.000k
    10. UFC 211 Miocic vs JDS II = 300.000k

    So literally in this moment, the only ones whom sold more than Cyborg are Mcgregor and Jon Jones.

    Looking at those numbers, Cyborg is a bigger draw than Cormier, Miocic, Holloway, Khabib, Whittaker, TJ Dillashaw, Woodley, Ferguson, etc..
     
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  7. sdpdude9

    sdpdude9 Green Belt

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    Yes, that PPV did pretty well with the top 2 women they have and supported by Khabib. But when it wasn’t their two best draws together, the best number either of them got was 260k, which is on par with or lower every other lower selling champion. There’s nothing extraordinary about either of their selling abilities.
     
  8. kibz

    kibz Brown Belt

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    There are some really good female mma fighters who are great additions to PPVs (eg, Nunez, Cyborg, JJ, Rose).

    But putting subpar caliber WMMA fighters on the main cards of PPVs is like going to a website and needed to take a survey before continuing. At least it gives you a chance to make something to eat and take a dump, but at $65 and 5 fights that’s a $13 throwaway.
     
  9. Geniusss

    Geniusss White Belt

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    Considering the fact that UFC doesn't promote women since Rousey, it's amazing that an event headlined by women is one of the biggest PPV event last 2 years on UFC.

    Dude if they do ''Cyborg vs Nunes II'' as headliner, that will be huge.
    I'm 100% sure.
     
  10. Anomonis

    Anomonis Brown Belt

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    It's telling that the WMMA defenders resort to screaming "sexism!!" every time this is brought up. Just a cheap appeal to emotion to mask the fact that most of the female fights and fighters suck.
     
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  11. sdpdude9

    sdpdude9 Green Belt

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    Cyborg vs. Nunes II might do alright. Cyborg is the biggest women’s draw they have and he going for vengeance is a good storyline.

    But my whole point was when Cyborg wasn’t facing the other biggest draw in Holly Holm, she did pretty a pretty average buy rate. This all supports my original statement that WMMA isn’t super profitable and that’s not why they keep it around.

    Cyborg and Holm are ok draws and when combined they pulled in decent numbers with another good seller (Khabib) on the card. And beyond these two, nobody else is a draw. Nunea, Shevchenko, Joanna, or Rose haven’t shown to be big sellers. The UFC keeps it around for PR reasons and to pad out cards, not because it has huge stars that are selling super well.
     
  12. sdpdude9

    sdpdude9 Green Belt

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    For me, I’m totally fine with Women fighting. They deserve the opportunity to do so just the same as men. But that doesn’t change the fact that I (and many others) don’t want to watch it because their skill isn’t on par. Same reason other women’s sports aren’t as popular as their male counterparts. Difference is when you watch other sports you don’t have to sit through or waste time in the middle of the event because they’re showing lower quality content.

    As I said earlier in the thread, I know why the UFC won’t seperate it, but I don’t know why the fans of it are so against it. Let everybody watch what they want to.
     
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  13. Geniusss

    Geniusss White Belt

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    What happened is that everybody was scared of Cyborg and most of the fighters of her division choosed to go down to the other division, so for those reasons it was very difficult to find challengers for her.

    1. The first 145 champion (Germaine de Randaime) avoided Cyborg and got stripped.
    2. They put a girl who was making her UFC debut to fight Cyborg for the title LOL (that wasn't the main event)
    3.They found Holly Holm, a very good challenger, and they did good numbers (380k).
    4.Then they a girl who nobody didn't even know who was, I think that was her UFC debut too. However with that and the fact that they made that fight with 2 or 3 weeks noticed, they did average numbers (260k).
    5.Then they put Nunes, the one that beat her, but that was a co-main fight. However everybody was talking about their fight on UFC 232, so that makes think that their fight helped a lot on UFC 232 numbers (700k).

    We just have to give them time. WMMA is growing a lot, if UFC promotes them and helps more they will be put way better numbers.
    Let's give them some time!
     
  14. sdpdude9

    sdpdude9 Green Belt

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    So I’ve actually said I’m ok with keeping some of the top women. But the problem most have with it is that once you get past the top 3-5, the talent level drops off quite a bit and that’s what most don’t want to see. It’s noticeably a step below in skill and that’s not what we want to see when watching the premier MMA organization. They can keep the best girls with some actual skill, but keep the bush league level stuff in invicta. Or just move all of it to it’s own thing, then everybody is happy.
     
  15. jeremyemilio

    jeremyemilio Silver Belt

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    Well... but you also don't see NBA fans being forced to watch the under 6 foot division, or NFL fans being forced to watch the under 180 lbs division. Women's divisions make perfect sense in a sport that divides and categorizes athletes based on a single metric with arbitrarily set limits.

    At least splitting the genders has some sort of logically consistent sense to it. MMA splits fighters up according to weight, and then turns around and starts talking about how some little guy who would get beaten to a pulp by over half the roster may be the best fighter on the planet.

    Sure... and Muggsy Bogues is the NBA GOAT.
     
  16. BjPenn2017

    BjPenn2017 Black Belt

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    Wmma sucks and I agree it's not so much the fact they put it on its the fact they always have to sandwich it in between two interesting matchups usually.

    I'm not at all opposed to wmma only cards either, then I, and many other people who have 0 interest in it can skip it. Nothing wrong with that, I think both sides actually win here. Wmma fans who actually enjoy that shit get there safe space to watch women fight, real mma get more entertainment value for their dollar, win win.
     
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  17. crxer

    crxer Green Belt

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    besides the top 2 girls in each division wmma is a joke and i hope so.... but i doubt it ufc is very SJW now.
     
  18. -Dim-

    -Dim- Gold Belt

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    this is the other thing, you seem to think that PPV buy rates is the be-all and end-all of profit making.

    Its not, its a grain of salt in the olympic swimming pool of profit and its getting smaller every day. Every now and again you get a ppv that "pulses" a little bit higher than normal but thats it.


    The profit is in the new tv deal they signed with ESPN, (and its been repeatedly shown that on network tv, the girls bring in good numbers, PVZ v Waterson did better numbers than pretty much every male card on Fox ever), the profit is in the deal they signed with Amazon (The same Amazon that actually asked UFC for more women of PPV cards because their numbers and research showed that would bring more viewers from their prime subscribers)

    The UFC is worth considerably more now than it was when WME bought it, and theyve done that WITH female fighters on cards..
     
  19. -Dim-

    -Dim- Gold Belt

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    And this is the thing, Cyborg v a girl who nobody even knew who she was, still did better than:

    UFC 230 Cormier vs. Lewis 2018.11.03 250,000
    UFC 192 Cormier vs. Gustafsson 2015.10.03 250,000
    UFC 225 Whittaker vs. Romero 2 2018.06.09 250,000
    UFC 201 Lawler vs. Woodley 2016.07.30 240,000
    UFC 218 Holloway vs. Aldo 2 2017.12.02 230,000
    UFC 195 Lawler vs. Condit 2016.01.02 230,000
    UFC 198 Werdum vs. Miocic 2016.05.14 217,000
    UFC 173 Barao vs. Dillashaw 2014.05.24 215,000
    UFC 178 Johnson vs. Cariaso 2014.09.27 205,000
    UFC 216 Ferguson vs. Lee 2017.10.07 200,000
    UFC 212 Aldo vs. Holloway 2017.06.03 200,000
    UFC 180 Werdum vs. Hunt 2014.11.15 190,000
    UFC 179 Aldo vs. Mendes 2 2014.10.25 180,000
    UFC 163 Aldo vs. Korean Zombie 2013.08.03 180,000
    UFC 234 Silva vs. Adesanya 2019.02.09 175,000
    UFC 206 Holloway vs. Pettis 2016.12.10 150,000
    UFC 213 Romero vs. Whittaker 2017.07.08 130,000
    UFC 221 Romero vs. Rockhold 2018.02.10 130,000
    UFC 228 Woodley vs. Till 2018.09.08 130,000
    UFC 177 Dillashaw vs. Soto 2014.08.30 125,000
    UFC 186 Johnson vs. Horiguchi 2015.04.25 125,000
    UFC 174 Johnson vs. Bagautinov 2014.06.14 115,000
    UFC 191 Johnson vs. Dodson 2 2015.09.05 115,000

    and of course...

    Bellator NYC Sonnen vs. Silva 2017.06.24 95,000
     
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  20. -Dim-

    -Dim- Gold Belt

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    Tell you why I love WMMA (And very often prefer it to the male side of the sport), is theres very little ducking, the girls all stay as active as they can and fight other contenders..

    look at the strawweight division and the top girls over the last 2-3 years..,.

    Rose - Fought Joanna twice, Karolina, Tecia, Michelle Waterson and now scheduled to fight Jess Andrade

    Jess Andrade - fought Joanna, Claudia Gadelha, Karolina, Tecia, and scheduled to fight Rose

    Karolina - Fought Joanna, Rose, Claudia, Jessica Andrade and scheduled to fight waterson

    Claudia Gadelha - fought Joanna, Jessica Andrade, karolina, Carla Esparza

    Joanna - fought Rose twice, Tecia, Jessica Andrade, Carolina, Claudia Gadelha and Valentina...




    Compare that to say 155lb...

    Khabib - won his belt against Iaquinta, fought Conor but wont fight Tony and has barely fought anyone in the top ten.

    Tony - Fought Anthony Pettis and Kevin Lee but now seemingly doesnt want to fight anyone

    Conor - Fought Nate who is barely top ten and Khabib


    The mens divisions there is so much ducking going on, people dont want to fight each other, only want to fight certain people.

    At least the girls just sign the bout agreements and get the fuck on with it.
     
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