Forgive my ignorance guys but the recent DQ of Kenan and Miyao got me thinking, why is there such a hesitancy to take the top position? Is it fear of getting swept or just a desire to stick to one's game plan? I've always been taught to take the top position and we know from MMA that the guy on top is generally perceived as the more dominant fighter. Would love an explanation on this, thanks!
Why the double guard pull?
- Thread starter snowolf17
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Fear of getting swept is pretty much it. Both guys have incredible guards, and while they also have great passing, their guards are really where the money is. Trying to pass the other is a poor proposition for both.
You would think Kenan being the bigger fighter would be more anxious to take the top position despite myao's excellent guard. Could one say there is a trend these days of competitive jiujitsu fighters working on their guard game more then their guard passing?
I think the IBJJF ruleset incentivizes fighting from the bottom position. It also seems that the Berimbolo is incredibly effective under those rules and seeing as though the Miyaos literally drill that position for hours daily, it's strategic suicide to try and pass their guards.
The lack of knee reaping and leglock attacks also make it harder to beat a guard specialist.
The lack of knee reaping and leglock attacks also make it harder to beat a guard specialist.
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No, they probably work it in equal parts. But it's easier to execute a successful sweep, than a successful guard pass against someone with an excellent guard. Miyao's guard is ridiculously hard to pass. I've never seen pass his guard into side control.
Honestly, I don't think it really has all that much to do with the rules. Lots of other tournaments (that use other rule sets) have much the same issue. Honestly, a berimbolo from someone with that much skill at it is very effective at any time. The biggest reason that double guard pulls happen is that sometimes, when skill levels are close, sitting down is just your best option to stop your opponent from sweeping or taking your back.
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a lot of guys are better off their back. so why waste time fighting to get a takedown that puts you were you dont even want to be? as lame as it is its a pretty obvious strategic move. why is this such a hard concept for people to understand??
I'm not familiar with any other competitions that don't use a derivative of the IBJJF ruleset for the kimono. Were there many double guard pulls at Rose Gracie's tournaments?
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keenan did at euro's... only time i have seen it though
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I don't think so. Gui has a very slick and controlling top game and at the same time he still has a very active and dangerous guard.
excellent point
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i'm ok with the dq. sport bjj is getting ridculous with the beri,50/50 butt scoot stall whatever you want to call it.
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Felipe Pena also did at purple belt at the 2011 Mundials
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I think it's because light guys are usually more flexible than big guys, and big guys are usually stronger than light guys. So in the end you naturally end up training from bottom much more often. Being a light guy it happened to me, and while I actively tried to get out from my comfort zone and developed some decent passing skills, my guard is not as dangerous as my team-mates who specialized in it.
I'd like to quote a guy from my gym who reacted when I told him I was cross-training in judo: "you don't need to do judo since in our weight division (featherweight) nobody is going to fight for top position. You don't need to work in stand up like the spazzy heavyweight, you can just sit and sweep."
I'd like to quote a guy from my gym who reacted when I told him I was cross-training in judo: "you don't need to do judo since in our weight division (featherweight) nobody is going to fight for top position. You don't need to work in stand up like the spazzy heavyweight, you can just sit and sweep."
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Sadly, he's got a point. Also a featherweight, I wrestled for 3 years yet have never had the chance to wrestle some one in competition. It's always pulling guard. And then I've been accustomed to it. I'd like to stand-up a lot of the time, but pulling guard is the way the rules work.
They care more about winning shiny medals than they do about Jiu-Jitsu. It's that simple.
Just keep practicing good, fundamental Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and let the high level competitors who are doing this double guard pull, butt flop, 50/50, inverted guard, Berimbolo bullshit get less and less relevant. I don't even watch anything under Meio-Pesado anymore because I know it's going to be a load of this crap.
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Not even passers like Gui Mendes?
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Bruno vs Gui was extremely boring.
Because IBJJF rules award points for reversing your opponent into a position (bottom, playing guard) that you yourself had willingly gone to moments earlier. Do away with sweep points, and guard pulling will no longer be attractive.
