Why striking (stand up) loses to wrestling more often than not

TheFinerDetails said:
The simple answer everyone overlooks is this. A wrestler trains to keep someone on the ground for as long as they possibly can. A striker trains to hit someone who is standing in front of them.
Coincidence that one favorus the other in an mma-style fight?
The problem with training "a little bit of wrestling" to defend takedowns, is that the people who are training for wrestling are training to beat people who train as hard as them. A person who "trains a little bit of wrestling" stands no match for someone who is day in day out at the gym training.
Click to expand...

oh wow please tell us something new that we figured out back in UFC 1
 
spacetime said:
Plenty of rules which favour wrestlers. Including stoppage for rounds (time up) once they get a good position, a striker can be saved by the bell.

My proposition is the same for the street. The wrestler is a huge favourite in style vs style.
Click to expand...

what about a wrestler vs a judoka?

being a wrestler doesnt make u a master of Ground and pound either... wrestling doesnt teach u to punch on the ground or submit
 
This is true for 10+ years ago


MMA training has gotten so much better since then
 
ThatBJJGuy said:
what about a wrestler vs a judoka?

being a wrestler doesnt make u a master of Ground and pound either... wrestling doesnt teach u to punch on the ground or submit
Click to expand...

The thread is about striking vs wrestling. I am not qualifed to speak of Wrestling - Judo. The reason why I find the striking vs wrestling thing interesting is the paradox in having an ordinary fight being started standing up, yet the guy trained for the ground is the favourite. If you think about it more deeply you will understand why though a trained wrestler is the favourite, as I've outlined.
 
ThatBJJGuy said:
talking out your ass about BJJ and sport bjj competitors

just another idiot that doesnt train.
Click to expand...

I meant no disrespect to the sport or anyone who trains it. I meant solely through what I've experienced. I also did say until the high levels which I said out of context, I didn't necessarily mean blackbelts, I meant until the competitive levels. Sorry if I offended you... It's just solely from my experience. Here's a scenario that happened to me.
I went into a new BJJ school for the first time after moving houses, and heard after the training about how 4 or 5 guys in the class all smoke White Ox because apparently it's a healthier style of tobacco. Nothing against them, or what they choose to do. Lazy was probably just a bad word I used. But you can't deny that the lower levels of BJJ don't heighten intensity like a lot of other sports do. I'm sure wrestling would do it too, but it's very high level to begin with, in terms of picking and structure.
I definitely chose some wrong words and didn't elaborate on what I meant, but I'm definitely not just another idiot who doesn't train.

A 1hour 30minute class where you stretch for 10, do pushups and situps for 20, learn 45 minutes of technique (where you only rep 3 times each side for 4 different techniques), and then roll for 15 minutes, is what I was referring to. Obviously this is the same for every other sport, but just through OBSERVATION, I've solely noticed it attracts a slower style of lazier person, WHO IF THEY WANT TO GET GOOD, they will, and then they'll train competitively and they'll compete.

I in no way meant disrespect to any athletes in the BJJ world. Obviously you guys work just as hard, if not harder, than any other athlete, I based my thing, WHICH I SAID I DID, OFF EXPERIENCES. I haven't trained in a highly competitive school, so this could be why.
 
ThatBJJGuy said:
oh wow please tell us something new that we figured out back in UFC 1
Click to expand...

If you bothered to read the other posts instead of trying to shoot at me for making you fucking butthurt, maybe you'd understand why I stated it. People basing there arguments about conditioning? I thought I had to post an obvious statement because it's obvious people hadn't even realised it yet.
 
spacetime said:
He can finish him off in a number of ways. For instance Randy Couture style and just throw haymakers to the face. It doesn't need to be technical, just strike. And he can too choke him out easily once the striker is tired. You don't need submission expertise.
Click to expand...

Then cant the striker have a sloppy sprawl, and novice whizzer here and there to protect against the clinch and takedown.
 
TheFinerDetails said:
The simple answer everyone overlooks is this. A wrestler trains to keep someone on the ground for as long as they possibly can. A striker trains to hit someone who is standing in front of them.
Coincidence that one favorus the other in an mma-style fight?
The problem with training "a little bit of wrestling" to defend takedowns, is that the people who are training for wrestling are training to beat people who train as hard as them. A person who "trains a little bit of wrestling" stands no match for someone who is day in day out at the gym training.
Click to expand...

When I say a little bit of wrestling, it was a figure of speech. The striker can always train with wrestlers enough to be proficient in defense against these people.
 
MadSquabbles500 said:
Then cant the striker have a sloppy sprawl, and novice whizzer here and there to protect against the clinch and takedown.
Click to expand...

That's about his only chance - fight on the outside, avoid clinch and takedowns. This is by definition very problematic. A wrestler can fake an attack and take him down. All of this avoidance requires great reflexes from the striker. He needs to be exceptional in his art.
 
spacetime said:
That's about his only chance - fight on the outside, avoid clinch and takedowns. This is by definition very problematic. A wrestler can fake an attack and take him down. All of this avoidance requires great reflexes from the striker. He needs to be exceptional in his art.
Click to expand...

But are we including striking arts like Sanshou, and Muay Thai, that have some takedowns, and clinching in it.
 
MadSquabbles500 said:
But are we including striking arts like Sanshou, and Muay Thai, that have some takedowns, and clinching in it.
Click to expand...

Karate, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, all include throws and/or close range combat like joint manipulation and stuff but that's pretty irrelevant really. What's emphasized is their training in striking. And the clinch in Muay Thai cannot be relied upon against wrestlers.
 
spacetime said:
Karate, Muay Thai, Taekwondo, all include throws and/or close range combat like joint manipulation and stuff but that's pretty irrelevant really. What's emphasized is their training in striking. And the clinch in Muay Thai cannot be relied upon against wrestlers.
Click to expand...

They're not irrelevant. And fyi joint manipulations are banned in the ufc.
 
Celestial Kid said:
They're not irrelevant. And fyi joint manipulations are banned in the ufc.
Click to expand...

Joint manipulation has been debunked years ago. It doesn't matter if it's on the street or implemented under UFC rules, you don't have time for it against a resisting opponent. It's crap.
 
A lot of wrestlers getting cocky lately. UFC rules suck and the rules favor wrestling. You can't 12-6 elbow which works very well against wrestlers. You can't knee when the opponent has 1 hand on the ground. BS rules to favor grapplers. Take them out and more grapplers will be getting KOed.

Some strikers lose to wrestlers because they lack fight IQ. They spam kicks and get taken down. They have to be methodical and strike from a low base.
 
spacetime said:
Joint manipulation has been debunked years ago. It doesn't matter if it's on the street or implemented under UFC rules, you don't have time for it against a resisting opponent. It's crap.
Click to expand...

Then why is it banned?
 
ThatBJJGuy said:
the cage and rules favor the wrestler

lets see a wrestler in a ring under pride fc rules and 10 minute first rd
Click to expand...

Yeah they should take the 1 hand on the floor rule out and include 12-6 elbows. Alot of wrestlers will get back aches and they'll get koed with knees more often.
 
I'm not exactly sure what you're looking to accomplish with this, but it's propaganda at best. If you're using MMA as an example, the missing part is the level of stand-up fighters, and a wrestling-favoritist rule-set. Even then, it's not like mediocre strikers never knocked out wrestlers. Kerr got his ass whooped on his feet more than once, Coleman got waited out and beat up by Williams and Smith before they invoked the time limits. Randleman got knocked out more than once in the first round. King Mo was knocked out. I mean, if all that shit in your first post were blanket truths, none of these KO's would have been possible. So yeah, a wrestler can defeat a striker, if they don't get slept in the process. Oh and that's medium-level strikers vs. reputable wrestlers, some on the World and Oly levels.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
1,237,014
Messages
55,461,153
Members
174,787
Latest member
Santos FC 1912

Share this page

Back
Top