Why So Many Americans Believe In The Deep State

[Kindacrazy]

Its called systemic social evolution. Its not really complicated. Political and social systems evolve defense mechanisms where individual interests intersect. This is often a form of corruption but when there is no inherent mechanism to deal with the issue the structure crystallizes and eventually becomes an accepted part of the social system itself.

The deepstate exists, because it literally cannot not exist. Its effects are debatable, its existence is not.

 

[Soul Crusher]

[URL='https://www.google.se/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiV0prJr6_dAhXrxVQKHZXcBZwQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.wlth.com%2Finspire%2Fsecrets-dollar-bill%2F&psig=AOvVaw2cKVVaPQW1yzD8OPzlFH3v&ust=1536632178281278']https://www.google.se/url?sa=i&rct=...aw2cKVVaPQW1yzD8OPzlFH3v&ust=1536632178281278

[/URL]

 

[curryjunkie]

This is the actual, demonstrable, non-secret truth.

Intellectuals like Noam Chomsky have been writing about it for many decades. Unfortunately, private, corporate power has nothing to do with the "Deep State" as it is defined and imagined by Trumpublicans and associated CT nutters.

Its both corporate influence and the military industrial complex, they are essentially the same thing, the left wing has been saying so for years, it didn't matter to the right wing until trump, and they still missed the target completely, they think its a nefarious plot by the trannies....

 

[IDL]

Its both corporate influence and the military industrial complex, they are essentially the same thing, the left wing has been saying so for years, it didn't matter to the right wing until trump, and they still missed the target completely, they think its a nefarious plot by the trannies....

Aren't the libertarians commonly considered 'right-ish'? Seems like the 'deep state' concepts have been more focussed on in that group more-so than the mainstream right or left.

 

[xcvbn]

I believe there is a bipartisan shadow government made up of appointed, not elected, officials. They have tremendous power and influence, mostly doing the bidding of corporations, billionaires, and foreign governments like Israel, Saudi Arabia, UK, and Russia.

The big conspiracy is how the GOP managed to convince so many people that there is a "deep state" but only some bizarre partisan Democrat-only kind that's managed to exist despite Republicans entering and leaving office.

The swamp is very healthy in 2018.

 

[Seaside]

Depends on what deep state means.

Controlling mechanisms deeper than what appears in the surface of politics? Obviously the case with all the NSA, international corporate influence, etc. Would be absurd to think that is not the case, but again of course it depends on definitions.

that are a lot of idiots in the world and even in this thread. People actually denying it. LOLz i hope they paid shills or doing it for nationalist reasons.

what is funny is these same people will say ´´oh well deep state exists in china or russia or turkey those places BUT NOT HERE!!´´

 

[Rematch]

I believe there is a bipartisan shadow government made up of appointed, not elected, officials. They have tremendous power and influence, mostly doing the bidding of corporations, billionaires, and foreign governments like Israel, Saudi Arabia, UK, and Russia.

The big conspiracy is how the GOP managed to convince so many people that there is a "deep state" but only some bizarre partisan Democrat-only kind that's managed to exist despite Republicans entering and leaving office.

The swamp is very healthy in 2018.

When one side talks about it but the other outright denies it, what is one to believe? It's not so much what the GOP says but rather what the DNC wishes not to be discussed that make people wonder. The DNC is not doing itself any favors.

 

[VivaRevolution]

Deep state as in Q anon?

Or deep state as in Boeing, and Lockheed Martin have massive and disproportionate influence on our politicians?

 

[InternetHero]

Bureaucracy and bureaucratic interests are a thing, universally.

That people oversimplify and degrade a serious matter is not grounds to say there is no cost/benefit that must be done for more or less government.

 

[InternetHero]

Depends on what deep state means.

Controlling mechanisms deeper than what appears in the surface of politics? Obviously the case with all the NSA, international corporate influence, etc. Would be absurd to think that is not the case, but again of course it depends on definitions.

We need to stop bastardizing our lexicon.

That said, the left and the right are busy churning out a million words a second to inundate the masses with crude political constructs that will make them ANGRY enough to vote against the OTHER GUY. That is where we are now....

We need to intellectually corral the herd of the people and not let say a Sean Hannity or Maddow be the herd master.

The root of the problem perhaps? A lot of intellectuals and rulers are terrified of that herd and are not willing to stand up against the braying of the angrier members of the any We The People.

That's unfortunate and we should revise the language, the culture, and all civility wherever we can agree past the left/right paradigm.

 

[DanMMAleague]

Liberals are the ones you expect to believe in the deep state.

But it is *conservatives* who are the real supporters.

Every aspect of the deep state, conservatives support. It is one of the reasons I became a libertarian. Conservatism is a dead shell, a morass of statism now.

It’s mainly losers on low income who believe in the deep state, they don’t want to say they have been dealt a bad hand or have personal short comings.

Instead they want to say there is some conspiracy oppressing them.

Generally there are a lot of people on the left on low income because leftist ideology supports that but there are still some who can’t stand minority’s and foreigners so Trump, Alex Jones etc. tap into a minority of low income earners with right wing views.

That’s what I think anyway.

 

[TheComebackKid]

The same people ridiculing the idea of a deep state, and conspiracies in general, are the same ones who believe Donald Trump conspired Vladimir Putin himself to steal the 2016 US Presidential election. They believe he is currently Putin's puppet and literally being controlled by the Kremlin. Yet conspiracies don't exist.

These people are unstable.

 

[waiguoren]

A) because no matter who we vote in, things for the most part stay the same

Deep state is simply the mega corporations using donations to keep enough politicians in their pocket to continue all systems normal

The intelligence agencies also are very powerful and very unaccountable. We should be more skeptical of FBI/CIA/NSA given the documented history of misconduct.

Now we have the huge anti-Trump movement saying that the FBI shouldn't be accountable to the president, and many are even endorsing the actions of the anonymous NY Times op-ed writer.

Our system is supposed to divide power between three co-equal branches. If we want to add a fourth branch, we should amend the Constitution. Instead this issue (like many others) becomes a political football.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

What the media has done to this country over the past decade is despicable.

its just capitalism.

the more media competition, the more they must compete for eyes and ears. the more tempting it is to give consumers what they want: to be told that they're right about everything, to be told that the other side are corrupt and/or fools, add in bizarre crimes and stories about roaches in fast food.

as for the OP, its kinda like the god in the gaps mentality imo. the deep state is used to explain anything that some would rather not be explained in more conventional ways. it would challenge their ideology. so they invent something to explain away problems. "i dont know why x,y, and z happened = the deep state did it."

 

[JonnyRingo84]

They believe he is currently Putin's puppet and literally being controlled by the Kremlin.

meh. imo, thats a small percentage of the russia collusion crowd that take it this far.

 

[TheComebackKid]

meh. imo, thats a small percentage of the russia collusion crowd that take it this far.

Well an a disproportionate number of that crowd seems to post in the war room.

You know what's interesting about this whole Trump/Russia thing in regards to the question of "deep state"? Either Trump and a group of unelected and presumably unaccountable group of associates conspired to steal the US election thus installing his own deep state. Or this entire Trump/Russia investigation is a giant sham created by an already existing deep state in order to protect their deep state power structure. Either way there is a deep state...and a conspiracy.

Which do you think is more likely?

Spoiler

I predict you won't answer the question but rather say both outcomes likely true while also being likely untrue. Change my mind.

 

[TheComebackKid]

its just capitalism.

the more media competition, the more they must compete for eyes and ears. the more tempting it is to give consumers what they want: to be told that they're right about everything, to be told that the other side are corrupt and/or fools, add in bizarre crimes and stories about roaches in fast food.

as for the OP, its kinda like the god in the gaps mentality imo. the deep state is used to explain anything that some would rather not be explained in more conventional ways. it would challenge their ideology. so they invent something to explain away problems. "i dont know why x,y, and z happened = the deep state did it."

It's not competition tho, it's coordination. There have been continuous examples of news outlets regurgitating the same stories and talking points sometimes down to the exact verbiage. There has also been numerous journalists and news figures getting caught taking money and having close personal relationships with politicians and political parties. And then you have to consider that fact that the vast majority of msm outlets are actually owned by the same few corporations.

You have way to much faith in coincidences.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

Well an a disproportionate number of that crowd seems to post in the war room.

You know what's interesting about this whole Trump/Russia thing in regards to the question of "deep state"? Either Trump and a group of unelected and presumably unaccountable group of associates conspired to steal the US election thus installing his own deep state. Or this entire Trump/Russia investigation is a giant sham created by an already existing deep state in order to protect their deep state power structure. Either way there is a deep state...and a conspiracy.

Which do you think is more likely?

Spoiler

I predict you won't answer the question but rather say both outcomes likely true while also being likely untrue. Change my mind.

lol

so those are the only two options?

what about trump knows nothing about russian help (other than the dirt he tried to get on hillary - which isnt that unusual for politicians), but russia tries to help him on their own? i mean, he was saying a lot of shit that russia undoubtedly likes. shit talking NATO and the UN. talking about pulling out of several military bases around the world. if you're putin, whats not to like? fire up your social media troll farms and increase identity politics in the US.

 

[JonnyRingo84]

It's not competition tho, it's coordination. There have been continuous examples of news outlets regurgitating the same stories and talking points sometimes down to the exact verbiage.

which could very well be lazy journalism, rather than some mass conspiracy lol. shitty clickbait sites plagiarize major outlets. are they just lazy, or are they a part of the illuminati?

There has also been numerous journalists and news figures getting caught taking money and having close personal relationships with politicians and political parties.

predictable, and nothing new. this will happen even if the illuminati is not coordinating world media.

And then you have to consider that fact that the vast majority of msm outlets are actually owned by the same few corporations.

this will happen even if the illuminati is not coordinating world media. the same thing happens in all industries, left unchecked.

You have way to much faith in coincidences.

i just have faith in occam's razor, which im sure youre familiar with.

conspiracies happen. the frequency with which its suggested they happen today though, is a product of clickbait media, and little more.

 

[ElKarlo]

I remember years ago listening to an interview on NPR.

The interview was with the WaPo journalist who was assigned to cover the CIA. He covered the agency for over 20 years.

During the interview, he mentioned that he believed that the CIA used to be it's own, autonomous organization that simply gathered information and presented it to policy makers. Then, the policy makers created policy based upon their findings.

However, since 2001, he said the CIA started working along side the DOD and it made him quite weary. After all, why not let the DOD run the drone programs, not in conjunction with CIA?

Plus, he also spoke about if the CIA had lost it's original goal after the Cold War ended.

For instance, he stated in his interview "Why is the CIA writing reports about the copper markets in Chile? Certainly, there are plenty of open source reports out there written by college professors (or businesses) about Chilean copper". He believed that we didn't need to send personnel down to Chile to write reports on Chile's copper mines. I assume he meant to emphasize that the cost of Chilean copper has little bearing on our national security.

In essence, he wondered if the intelligence communities should go back to their Cold War days:

- Gather information and give it to the policy makers.....don't try to create policy.
- Keep your independence.
- Keep your eye on the ball (national security)

Good point. The cia basically invented and made everyone believe the wmd nonsense in Iraq. And when thay didn't pan out, they were moved to Syria.
I'm not a CT person but the cia is Def trying to be active instead of being a tool