Why should submission attempts score points?

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by superpunch, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. superpunch

    superpunch Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    14,177
    Likes Received:
    15,209
    When you lay on top of someone, you drain their energy, you land some damage to them, etc. You're doing something that's bad for the other guy. That's why it scores points.

    Does a failed armbar hurt the other guy? Does it drain his cardio? I think usually the guy going for subs is wasting more energy. Why should failed submission attempts score points?
     
  2. Aaaay1hotsauce

    Aaaay1hotsauce Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2019
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    224
    Yes, it hurts a lot and you will feel it the rest of the fight. You will also lose a ton of energy fighting out of it.
     
  3. Fahcough

    Fahcough Red Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Messages:
    7,864
    Likes Received:
    17,470
    Location:
    South, the deep south
    because submissive men laying on the ground think they can fight and UFC is about equality for the weak. It's like participation trophies.
    It's so much deeper than the judging. Gives 3rd world kids a hope of growing up something other than murdered. So they join hugging gyms instead of gangs.
    [​IMG]
     
  4. Hellowhosthat

    Hellowhosthat Purple Belt

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Messages:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    9,690
    Depends how close to finishing they are, if it's a deep armbar then it should score, if it's someone throwing their legs up and not getting close then it shouldn't.
     
  5. 5 insightful

    5 insightful Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2015
    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    521
    There is no such thing in MMA judging as "scoring points" by offensive techniques. Only whole rounds are scored, according to the rules. So basically your whole question is meaningless.
     
  6. The UFC Brander Collector

    The UFC Brander Collector Yellow Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2019
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    477
    Because it is a failed attempt
    Like a missed strike should be counted?
     
    babycart, E_tothe_X and Lukn4trbl like this.
  7. swarrrm

    swarrrm ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    10,304
    Likes Received:
    7,404
    Location:
    Canada
  8. pankrat

    pankrat Green Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2016
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    882
    Because people pay to watch it rather than stalling in advantegous positions.
    In terms of strictly scoring criteria, because of agression I guess
     
    Blayt7hh likes this.
  9. Hellowhosthat

    Hellowhosthat Purple Belt

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Messages:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    9,690
    A close attempt is more like a strike that lands but doesn't knock someone out.
     
  10. superpunch

    superpunch Yellow Card Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2015
    Messages:
    14,177
    Likes Received:
    15,209
    To me it's more like a strike that doesn't land.
     
  11. Yacob

    Yacob WBC Interim Junior Welterweight White Truffle Belt Yellow Card

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2019
    Messages:
    6,075
    Likes Received:
    14,496
    Location:
    Maine
    Control has to count if you're actually using it though
     
  12. Hellowhosthat

    Hellowhosthat Purple Belt

    Joined:
    May 30, 2019
    Messages:
    2,284
    Likes Received:
    9,690
    If someone is actually in a triangle and gets very close to tapping, how is that similar to a strike completely missing?
     
    TheVenom, Woliwo, Congo66 and 2 others like this.
  13. Ironnik94

    Ironnik94 Eggplant Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2019
    Messages:
    1,647
    Likes Received:
    3,593
    <Huh2>
    Are you intoxicated?
     
    Fahcough and Yacob like this.
  14. Jpenwell14

    Jpenwell14 Green Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2019
    Messages:
    972
    Likes Received:
    751
    I reckon it should be like a pinning near fall
     
  15. Congo66

    Congo66 Red Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    8,888
    Likes Received:
    17,116
    Location:
    London
    Exactly.
    Failed sub attempts are just the same as strikes that land and don't ko someone, they're not the same as strikes that miss.
     
    Hellowhosthat likes this.
  16. HelloJapan

    HelloJapan Talking loud and saying nothing. Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Messages:
    17,568
    Likes Received:
    28,273
    Location:
    Vancouver, Canada
    Fuck, you're retarded.
     
    Duck Dodgers and CerebralKnievel like this.
  17. ReadWrite

    ReadWrite Red Belt Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2013
    Messages:
    9,810
    Likes Received:
    14,630
    It's an act of aggression.
     
    meast likes this.
  18. Perrichet

    Perrichet Emery is a fraud

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2010
    Messages:
    23,918
    Likes Received:
    10,434
    Location:
    London
    Lol
     
  19. MPD-Psycho

    MPD-Psycho Silver Belt

    Joined:
    May 7, 2007
    Messages:
    14,489
    Likes Received:
    4,079
    Location:
    USA
    Well, technically nobody really scores. They both start a round with 10 points then one of them gets a mandatory deduction.
     
    pankrat likes this.
  20. EzekielFromMount

    EzekielFromMount Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2019
    Messages:
    518
    Likes Received:
    1,138
    The first point here is that not all failed subs are equal. Big difference between for example Vitor's armbar attempt on Jones and a half-assed guillotine someone tries as they're getting taken down.

    Sometimes failed joint submissions or chokes can still do damage, but that's hard to score.

    Subs can also take a lot of energy to defend, so they're offensively significant as a way of exhausting the opponent. This is also problematic because the reverse is also common : you can burn out your arms trying to crank a sub and that's tactically an advantage for the defender. A better grappler can and will bait their opponent into doing this, eg Khabibi and Dustin's guillotine.

    Sub attempts from a dominant position that don't compromise your position (choke attempts from the back, Kimura attempts from side control, arm triangles etc) can show dominance and control of the fight. The guy who's doing them is pretty clearly winning and showing that given time they could realistically finish the fight, especially if they maintain the position for a long time. It's hard to defend indefinitely.

    In general this is a pretty nuanced question and there's no universal answer.
     
    MPD-Psycho, Paolo Delutis and ufcfan4 like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.