Why p4p? (offensive to "real fans")

[Jermei]

P4P is pure fantasy and should include Jesus, Batman and Macho Man Randy Savage in every discussion.

 

[Franklin U.]

P4p is a subjective opinion-'-don't know why people have a problem with it...Im in the minority, but I dont have a problem with someone saying Jacare is a more worthy fighter overall than Frankie Edgar--they're in different weight classes but its a subjective opinion that Souza is better than Edgar but the only way they can get ranked is in a "p4p" ranking.

 

[kikikhan]

I don't care who you think the so called GOAT in any division is. I really don't. It's your opinion and you're welcome to it. The only thing I was saying, and this will be the last time I say it, is that the GOAT discussions and P4P discussions are pointless. Because, no matter who you or anyone else claims to be the GOAT or whatever else for that matter, someone will always have a difference of opinion and an agreement on the subject will never be reached. Therefore those type discussions are nothing more than a bunch of worthless arguing that will never be settled.

Now, if you had asked me who I think is the best HW we have seen so far in MMA, I would have happily replied Fedor. But instead you just go on some rant about Fedor as if I had said something bad about him, which I didn't.

Maybe reading comprehension just isn't your thing. That seems to be a big thing around here anyway.

Yeah, I did miss something obviously. But when I saw your example I lost my mind lol Sorry

I understand what you are saying. But my opinion isn't just an opinion. It's an opinion based on actual facts. No exaggerations or anything.

Fedor's GOAT status can't be disputed. Idiots with stupid non arguments don't change that.

I allways say to Fedor haters: I can sh*t way more on your GOAT, than you can on Fedor. And that's the truth. I don't need to sh*t on other fighters to show that Fedor is the GOAT, but it's simple if I'm forced to play that game. SIMPLE.

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

Hey you n00bs,

P4P is nothing new.


We, sports fans, have been perfectly fine with the concept of P4P for years, for decades, for generations.

Know your place, ya noobs. Listen and learn before you yap.

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

It's really not a difficult concept.



HBO

Most associate the origin of the "pound-for-pound" title with Sugar Ray Robinson in the 1940s and indeed, to this day most recognize Robinson as the best fighter ever to tie on a pair of gloves. The lore is that the newspaper guys needed a way to distinguish Robinson as the best fighter of the day as Joe Louis, a giant even then, was clearly the sport's emperor. Yes, Louis was the heavyweight champion, a national icon and beloved figure, the king of sport. But pound for pound, Robinson was better.

Some historians trace the concept of a pound-for-pound best back farther, to the teens and '20s, when the great lightweight champion Benny Leonard was one of the kings of the game, even as Jack Dempsey was making his legend at heavyweight.

The greatest heavyweights are never recognized as the best in the game, pound-for-pound. There are two reasons: first, the very designation is a means to separate heavyweight champions, typically the most popular and most watched fighters in the game, from the smaller, harder-working, under-rewarded guys. Secondly, even the best heavyweights are not as skilled, as fast, as good as the smaller guys. There could never be a heavyweight Willie Pep, even on Pep's worst day.

 

[Franklin U.]

Hey you n00bs,

P4P is nothing new.


We, sports fans, have been perfectly fine with the concept of P4P for years, for decades, for generations.

Know your place, ya noobs. Listen and learn before you yap.

I didn't want to be overly aggressive with this topic but this basically sums it up...

 

[kikikhan]

It's really not a difficult concept.



HBO

Most associate the origin of the "pound-for-pound" title with Sugar Ray Robinson in the 1940s and indeed, to this day most recognize Robinson as the best fighter ever to tie on a pair of gloves. The lore is that the newspaper guys needed a way to distinguish Robinson as the best fighter of the day as Joe Louis, a giant even then, was clearly the sport's emperor. Yes, Louis was the heavyweight champion, a national icon and beloved figure, the king of sport. But pound for pound, Robinson was better.

Some historians trace the concept of a pound-for-pound best back farther, to the teens and '20s, when the great lightweight champion Benny Leonard was one of the kings of the game, even as Jack Dempsey was making his legend at heavyweight.

The greatest heavyweights are never recognized as the best in the game, pound-for-pound. There are two reasons: first, the very designation is a means to separate heavyweight champions, typically the most popular and most watched fighters in the game, from the smaller, harder-working, under-rewarded guys. Secondly, even the best heavyweights are not as skilled, as fast, as good as the smaller guys. There could never be a heavyweight Willie Pep, even on Pep's worst day.

You need to take your reality pills.

Life isn't fair. Some are better made for fighting than others.

If a big "unskilled" guy kicks your tiny "skilled" as*, he still kicked your as* and WON THE FIGHT.

P4P is just a way to make inferior fighters appear more than what they are, because they are flashy (Why? Might want to check out gravity).

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

You need to take your reality pills.
Life isn't fair. Some are better made for fighting than others.

If a big "unskilled" guy kicks your tiny "skilled" as*, he still kicked your as* and WON THE FIGHT.

P4P is just a way to make inferior fighters appear more than what they are, because they are flashy (Why? Might want to check out gravity).

Again, it shouldn't be a difficult concept.


P4P = Best, regardless of size

... whereas...

Open Weight = Best.



(Open Weight, aka, Absolute, Overall, Straight-up)

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

P.S.


Chris Weidman > the fatboys at HW

 

[Jaymo_ie]

Because it purely subjective.....how do you measure it?

 

[Andrew06]

because they hate to admit that in their "alpha sport" a female is the best

 

[kikikhan]

Again, it shouldn't be a difficult concept.


P4P = Best, regardless of size

... whereas...

Open Weight = Best.



(Open Weight, aka, Absolute, Overall, Straight-up)

You can't just ignore such an important factor.

It's not realistic.

P4P is stupid.


It's fake, a fairytale. Not important in reality.


Talk about P4P, but f*cking realise that it's not as important as reality which is HWs>everybody else.

 

[kikikhan]

because they hate to admit that in their "alpha sport" a female is the best

OK, lets make it happen then. Werdum vs Ronda next. Fedor can wait.

If you weren't such a girl, you would know that real men watch MMA, because it's fighting and in fighting the guy who can beat anyone, no matter the size is the best. Not some 135 pound girl, who gets beaten up by an entire male MMA roster and countless civilians.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

That only makes the P4P question harder, it doesn't render it obsolete. It's only a hypothetical question anyway.

You are trying to isolate one variable, as if size is a simple thing, and as if all of the complex systems making up a human being can simply be grown and shrunk at will, while all of the "products" of these systems remain constant. People may still ask the question to fill their hours, but it is a stupid question.

 

[johncola]

You are trying to isolate one variable, as if size is a simple thing, and as if all of the complex systems making up a human being can simply be grown and shrunk at will, while all of the "products" of these systems remain constant. People may still ask the question to fill their hours, but it is a stupid question.

I know what you're saying, but it doesn't matter. The P4P question isn't something that can actually be answered. It's entirely theoretical. The idea is to generally increase the strength and power and height and reach while decreasing the speed of smaller fighters by making them bigger, while doing the opposite for bigger fighters, in order to determine who's more skilled. There's no need for it to be more complicated than that.

 

[Bowerman]

TS is spot on. Is Mouse Mouse better than Rothwell? No. Rothwell murders him in the octagon. Size matters. I'm sorry to burst the insecure bubble of all the manlets out there.

There is no P4P basketballers or under 5'5 sprint league. Combat athletes are lucky they are given their own sub category to compete and earn money. Heavyweight is open. Unless you step up and beat them, the heavyweights will always be the best the UFC has to offer.

Duffy has no striking technique. No ring IQ. He still murders 99% of the UFC's roster.

 

[CoffeeAndBeer]

You can't just ignore such an important factor.
It's not realistic.
P4P is stupid.
It's fake, a fairytale. Not important in reality.
Talk about P4P, but f*cking realise that it's not as important as reality which is HWs>everybody else.

It's not supposed to be anything other than... an assessment of fighters relative to each other, regardless of size.

That's it.

Whatever importance YOU THINK people are putting on the P4P concept/discussion BEYOND THAT... is on YOU.

If you're a sports fan...
If you know MMA...
If you can put two thoughts together...
The process of coming up with a P4P list is the purpose of P4P itself. Plus the debate with other fans.

 

[Cake4Breakfast]

I know what you're saying, but it doesn't matter. The P4P question isn't something that can actually be answered. It's entirely theoretical. The idea is to generally increase the strength and power and height and reach while decreasing the speed of smaller fighters by making them bigger, while doing the opposite for bigger fighters, in order to determine who's more skilled. There's no need for it to be more complicated than that.

But that is profoundly complicated, to the point of absurdity. Of course that matters, it ruins peoples' fun, and ruins their trying to create a fantasy world that is fair for the smaller guy, but that doesn't change the fact that the whole idea of p4p is irrational.