Why is there such a low standard for striking in mma?

[Le Fisticuffs]

Pure striking and MMA are hard to compare. You have decorated strikers like Joe Schilling, Melvin Manhoef, Semmy Schilt and Peter Aerts, who have all had middling or unsuccessful careers in MMA. It's just a different beast altogether.

 

[FlowchartKen]

if you are watching kickboxing for high level striking you are doing it wrong. kickboxing full of boxing washouts or just guys never good enough to make it.

I agree with this. As a long time boxing fan, I've never been impressed with kickboxing. It always struck me as exactly what you described, a sport for guys who aren't talented/skilled enough to be boxers. Every kickboxing match I've seen seems very basic and amateur level compared to pro boxing.

 

[RandomUser12]

Who has time to work on something as meaningless as striking when you have to work on defending against flying gogoplatas and matrix cage wall kicks?

These guys have to show poor technique because superior technique doesn't work. Chin up, eyes closed and telegraphed hooks and overhands all the way.

 

[bubbleboyjones]

But the main point is we praise as great or amazing for what really is is mediocre or average.

How is it mediocre if it's high level within the sport? From your standards why on earth are you watching kickboxing for fucks sake? Watch boxing.

 

[kingskot]

You should get in there and show them good striking.

 

[D 1 Wrestler]

Idk maybe cause kickboxing was my first love and love boxing, but just so many times I look back and see some of most memorable fights in mma from viewers eyes, had the worst striking I have ever seen in my life. You got your obvious bonnar vs griffin which is basically two grapplers who wish they knew striking. Then zombie vs Garcia 1( I preferred the 2nd) which was like a elementary school level.

Now of course we got fighters who have good qualities. Cruz footwork and movement is great, but his boxing period is not, but I see high level movement. Then of course Anderson, Aldo, barboza and overeem. But in terms of high level kickboxing outside of reem and maybe a prime Anderson, we don't have anyone. Conor has good boxing traits and knowledge for an mma fighter, but not a good level. But for what the sport is and how crap alot are, it's very decent. I see Wonderboy as just like a Raymond Daniels, who's kickboxing career is mainly knocking out low level mma fighters who wanted to be kickboxers for a night and getting smoked when he fought decent talent. Yes I know he is like 57-0 as a kickboxer, but not fought literally one good opposition.

But the main point is we praise as great or amazing for what really is is mediocre or average.

Guess I never just seen why. Shouldn't mma be at a level now to where that is unacceptable these days? I can understand back then but damn its almost 2017.

Nothing wrong or shocking about a guy not being good on the feet if it's not his game, it's the fact I see mediocre to average (sometimes even lower than that) strikers getting praise like they're good ones.

If I seen alot of the fighters you guys praise as having damn good striking in a kickboxing ring on a big stage, I'd probably asked for a refund, or you they atleast pay me

Same reason gatti vs Ward was popular less than elite skills but chins and haymakers

 

[SuperNerd]

I agree with this. As a long time boxing fan, I've never been impressed with kickboxing. It always struck me as exactly what you described, a sport for guys who aren't talented/skilled enough to be boxers. Every kickboxing match I've seen seems very basic and amateur level compared to pro boxing.

I think you guys are more accurate than I want to believe, but its levels, more shit to deal with, ect.

If you're really good at striking, why not limit the amount of dangerous positions and different attacks coming at you? Less to study, easier to prepare, more money to make..

I do agree over all, you often see guys who cannot master the full technicalities of boxing move into something else, find a new way to win.

 

[Paynebringer]

I mean no disrespect but you kind of sound like an elitist snob, they call it "Mixed" martial arts for a reason you can't box or kickbox off your back. If you doing boxing and the other guy is doing it you don't have to worry about other sh!t. In mma your stance change, hips, angles, constantly hi/lo to fend off kicks, td's, & sh!t. Sometimes you get turned around from a strike and just throw sh!t wildly hoping it hitz something even the ref.

It's understandable you're gonna get a somewhat lower level of striking because of all the other techniques you need to ready for.

 

[MCS]

I think the level of striking isn't low with the top strikers in MMA, and even what Jouban just did was impressive. Of course pure striking competition offers the highest level usually, but when you put 4 oz gloves on and can kick, knee and elbow, some exchanges are beautiful since you can't hide behind shoulder/glove or wrestle a guy to recover since you get hit in the clinch differently and usually more violently. This means trying to recover using various outside tricks or go for broke.

At a top level like Aldo vs Hominick you get great striking technique, scrambles, Hominick flailing around and then comes back. Same with Jones/Gus and Conor/Nate 2, or Choi/Cub. The striking is dynamic from all ranges and recovery and defense are more fighting for survival than using the ref or equipment to catch a break.

 

[soulsstealer]

Most MMA guys are wrestlers.

 

[johnyboy]

the best strikers in MMA will destroy your favorite boxers in strikes only match.

Strikes being the key word meaning kicks and knees would be allowed.

Conor would get picked apart in a boxing match against floyd

 

[superpunch]

But in terms of high level kickboxing outside of reem and maybe a prime Anderson, we don't have anyone.

You say MMA fighters have terrible kickboxing. But Overeem won a K-1 WGP and gets outkickboxed by every other guy he fights.

 

[FlowchartKen]

I think you guys are more accurate than I want to believe, but its levels, more shit to deal with, ect.

If you're really good at striking, why not limit the amount of dangerous positions and different attacks coming at you? Less to study, easier to prepare, more money to make..

I do agree over all, you often see guys who cannot master the full technicalities of boxing move into something else, find a new way to win.

Yeah, but no doubt a big part of boxing being tougher is just the talent pool too. It's a classic sport with (potentially) a lot of money to be made, so you generally find higher level athletes gravitate towards boxing than more niche combat sports.

But despite that, you generally have to be boxing since you were a kid to develop the skillset necessary to compete at world level. Boxing is quite unique in that regard, makes it fucking tough to be successful in.

As I said before, the only recent fighter I can think of that became a legit world class boxer having started boxing at 20+ is Sergio Martinez, and good on him, he had an impressive run.

 

[blacknblue104]

Easy to say if you've never trained or fought in MMA...I'm a big fan of boxing, kickboxing and MMA but there are major differences between a sport that's strictly striking and a sport like MMA.

The presence of grappling and extended clinches takes a heavy toll on your stamina. Take a high level boxer/kickboxer and make them grapple for 5-10 minutes and see if it doesn't take a heavy toll on their stamina, quickness, strength, movement, etc.

Not to mention that a lot of traditional boxing and kickboxing techniques don't directly translate to MMA. An upright stance is great for Muay Thai but horrible for MMA, it gets you taken down constantly.

The Philly Shell is great for boxing if used correctly, but it's bad for MMA because it leaves your feet stationary for an extended period of time (again, leaves you vunerable to takedowns). You also have to be careful using standard boxing techniques like a bob and weave because of the presence of knees and high kicks from a further distance.

Those are just a few examples, but you get the idea. Not to mention that MMA fighters have to train 6 different disciplines as well as strength, conditioning, and other aspects of the game.

MMA striking isn't the exact same as boxing or kickboxing because of the addition of so many different variables. Regardless though, MMA has only been around 25 years it's still in it's infancy- it's definitely evolving though, even compared to 10 years ago.

For the vast majority of the sports history, MMA has been grappler heavy- You can attribute that to the fact that grapplers have proven to be more effective in the MAJORITY of high level MMA fights thus far, and you can also attribute it to the fact that a lot of high level strikers go to other sports like boxing because of bigger purses.

Either way the UFC gaining more exposure and paying their fighters more money will help draw more strikers and athletes in the long run. The sport has to continue to evolve and play out though- fighters are "grappling heavy" and "strength/conditioning heavy" now because that's what's been proven to be effective.

The sport as a whole will evolve a ton in the next 20-30 years though, it's nowhere near peaked LOL.

 

[Paynebringer]

You can't compare boxing to MMA technique, and you can't compare kickboxing to MMA technique.

So many things change once you add grappling, kicks, open gloves with fingers, octagon vs ring, ect.

I use to think the same about how well kickboxing looked compared to MMA striking. Then I started training and realized how different they are.

Also why it's silly to have a kickboxing coach, a wrestling coach, a BJJ coach, ect. The MMA version of all of those are very different. You need at least one coach that can link all of those together and adapt for MMA.

Damn! I could've saved myself some time & thinking if had quoted you and just do my highlight thang and say THIS ^^^^

 

[itheuser]

Because if they aren't good grapplers, then they're sitting ducks. UFC 1 through now has proven this. MMA around the world has proven this. Amateur MMA still proves this.

MMA is a grappler's game. Striking happens when fighters either agree to stand and trade, or when one fighter cannot take the other fighter down.

Still, the entire sport revolves around your grappling ability, and that changes everything when trying to establish a rhythm in the striking game.

All boxers have to worry about are fists. They can focus their game around timing, and angles because they know their opponent won't take them down, and ruin what little chance they had at landing a punch.

UFC 1-4 should be required viewing for any new fan of MMA. Without that, not much about why fighters fight the way they do will make complete sense.

 

[dontlaugh]

Most fighters look to get a good basis for MMA when they start. So is a lil bit of this, a lil bit of that.

After a few years on the road they'll improve on what they want or what they do best. And then it will fall on their ability to absorb the training and learn. For example, Koscheck wanted to train mostly striking at some point, he improved a lot, still, got KO'd a bunch of times.

We can't compare Kickboxing, Muay Thai or Boxing's level of striking to MMA cause they're basically on one road since the start. Meanwhile MMA fighters have to improve every area often and end up not learning "a lot" of anything.

 

[superpunch]

Ever seen how a boxing match ends up in the clinch and separated by the ref every 15 seconds? That's why MMA striking looks ugly.

 

[itheuser]

Also, to the person who said that strikers have other sports, and grappler's don't, actually it's the exact opposite. Grapplers actually have more opportunities to express themselves outside of MMA, than strikers do in their respective sports. Also, they can do so without taking the damage that a striker would who sought to keep competing, and training would.

So, there's a better chance of continuing your grappling interests outside of school, or MMA than there is for people who study the striking arts.

Strikers simply have a higher learning curve when it comes to surviving in MMA than grapplers do. A pure grappler can still get far in MMA, while a pure strikers can be weeded out rather quickly.

 

[Sgt Smith]

Because of the mixed part of the acronym?