Why is there a misconception among BJJ practitioners that...

[ShowUsYaJits]

There is interesting discussion to be had even in a troll thread.

why is there a misconceptions among former wrestlers that jiu jitsu practitioners don't think wrestling is technical.

It's because some (not all) jiu jitsu practitioners don't think wrestling is technical. It also stems from wrestlers trying to use the wrestling mentality/experience in BJJ - and you can't really blame them. It's very difficult to unlearn years of muscle memory, especially when it is effective against white and blue belts, for example.

Another habit is probably that many positions feel like a "near pin" to a wrestler, and that is why there is muscle used. It's the same way that a BJJ artist will use muscle in the finishing phase of a submission. It makes sense to do so there, as you 3/4 of the way to finishing a guy and if you get the sub, it's all over. In any top control position, a wrestler will be feeling this urge as it's 3/4 of the way to finishing someone in their sport.

Of course, this habit tends to rub some BJJ people up the wrong way, especially since if you go to a BJJ class it is to learn BJJ techniques, not just practice what you know from another sport, and use a lot of muscle every time like a spazzy white belt.

I guess you could also get that kind of idea reading something like Saulo's JJU - e.g.

8-6 Escape Against Wrestler's Pin
Sometimes opponents are so tough, strong, and aggressive that they can force you out of a good survival position on tenacity alone. I would not say that this is good jiu-jitsu, but it is something to be prepared for. <snip>

It's also quite possible that some BJJ people think that takedowns are not technical because they have no desire to learn any wrestling, thinking they can just pull guard all the time. Of course it's technical in its area of application, but they wouldn't realize that.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

I think BJJ does not emphasize or train leg locks enough. I also believe Jiu Jitsu men have a vested interest in the whole guard passing game as its their speciality and teaching this is their lively hood. I would not be surprised if a good leg locks could go and win the mundials.

I'm done talking to you about this.

If a leg locker could just go in and win, they would have done so by now and would be making money.

Think what you want.

 

[Respeezy]

I'm pretty sure those wouldn't be allowed in a grappling competition. The beard hammers, that is. The axes are fine.

Though I think it's typically the trolls that end up slaying themselves. Well, unless you count the mods that ban them.

well... i'd say...

here's a knife.... do something with the knife.

 

[DeathMetalHead]

I find it funny how you ridicule me for saying something which is absolutely true. Between hand fighting, set ups, take downs and ground work, wrestling is much more technical than BJJ.

Regardless I am bored of your weak attempts to criticise me and call me a troll rather than debate the topic and issue at hand.

 

[juji gatame**]

I find it funny how you ridicule me for saying something which is absolutely true. Between hand fighting, set ups, take downs and ground work, wrestling is much more technical than BJJ.

Regardless I am bored of your weak attempts to criticise me and call me a troll rather than debate the topic and issue at hand.

Hmm. What's your stance on other grappling arts like Sambo/Judo/Catch Wrestling? I'd say Catch Wrestling is more technical than Freestyle/Folk because they have the takedowns, submission knowledge, and top control.

 

[Shulom1***]

Hmm. What's your stance on other grappling arts like Sambo/Judo/Catch Wrestling? I'd say Catch Wrestling is more technical than Freestyle/Folk because they have the takedowns, submission knowledge, and top control.

^ This. A freestyle wrestler would die against a CACC dude just as quickly as a BJJ would kill a freestyler, because freestyle has no submissions.

 

[DeathMetalHead]

Hmm. What's your stance on other grappling arts like Sambo/Judo/Catch Wrestling? I'd say Catch Wrestling is more technical than Freestyle/Folk because they have the takedowns, submission knowledge, and top control.

No offence but I was under the impression catch wrestling barely exists in terms of competitors and competitions.

Judo is alright but they have removed all leg attacks making it technically weaker than wrestling.

I am not familiar with Sambo, I am under the impression its simialar to judo but with more wrestling.

 

[Shulom1***]

No offence but I was under the impression catch wrestling barely exists in terms of competitors and competitions.

Sure it does. ever heard of Josh Barnett?

 

[UpaLoompa]

I find it funny how you ridicule me for saying something which is absolutely true. Between hand fighting, set ups, take downs and ground work, wrestling is much more technical than BJJ.

So because wrestling has aspects of grappling that bjj doesn't, it is more technical? Well bjj has aspects of grappling that wrestling doesn't... where does that leave us then?

Also, there's grip fighting in bjj (both standing and on the ground), set ups for submissions, positional ground work, submissions. Hell, even pulling guard should be approached technically; there's better and worse ways of doing it.

They're two different pursuits with different goals and both are very technical in getting there. It is fairly ridiculous to assert one being definitively "more technical" than the other, it is not even clear what that means.

Here's something to consider though: at high levels all of what you consider to be the technical aspects of wrestling are present in bjj/sub grappling. If you add in submissions and relaxed positional rules isn't that "more".

 

[UpaLoompa]

Sure it does. ever heard of Josh Barnett?

Barely would include "1".

 

[ShowUsYaJits]

This troll slayer character looks like a wrestler to me.

A wrestler? Powerlifter more like it.

 

[GnPFury]

Using the argument that "Mark Kerr won ADCC without any bjj so that makes wrestling better" is irrelevant. He was hopped up on steroids and that disqualifies his performance in my opinion.

 

[UpaLoompa]

Thirdly I'd ask who dominates MMa wrestlers or BJJ fighters?

Neither. BJJ black belts have wrestling coaches and D1 champs have bjj coaches.

 

[DeathMetalHead]

So because wrestling has aspects of grappling that bjj doesn't, it is more technical? Well bjj has aspects of grappling that wrestling doesn't... where does that leave us then?

Also, there's grip fighting in bjj (both standing and on the ground), set ups for submissions, positional ground work, submissions. Hell, even pulling guard should be approached technically; there's better and worse ways of doing it.

They're two different pursuits with different goals and both are very technical in getting there. It is fairly ridiculous to assert one being definitively "more technical" than the other, it is not even clear what that means.

Here's something to consider though: at high levels all of what you consider to be the technical aspects of wrestling are present in bjj/sub grappling. If you add in submissions and relaxed positional rules isn't that "more".

To be honest all I can take from this is that BJJ enthusiasts are naive to the technical complexity of top end wrestling.

Do you honestly think that the take downs in BJJ and sub grappling are even close to the technical expertise shown in Olympic wrestling?

Have a look at this training video...
YouTube - ???? ??????? ?? ???????????

 

[InfiniteWit]

Oh wait here comes a one off from 40 years ago, forgetting every time a wrestler won. These days many wrestlers can do submissions anyway.

Callin BS. Most submissions that wrestlers learn are from BJJ or are you saying that Catch wrestling has made a gigantic comeback that I was unaware of?

 

[DeathMetalHead]

Callin BS. Most submissions that wrestlers learn are from BJJ or are you saying that Catch wrestling has made a gigantic comeback that I was unaware of?

No they are from MMA I would say. Many wrestlers have an interest in MMA, if they went to a BJJ class and learnt a submission from there, then perhaps you could say BJJ.

 

[GnPFury]

If wrestling was so superior to bjj, then why do wrestlers always start learning bjj when they get into MMA? Examples include Josh Koscheck, Ben Askren, etc.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

I find it funny how you ridicule me for saying something which is absolutely true. Between hand fighting, set ups, take downs and ground work, wrestling is much more technical than BJJ.

It's actually pretty easy to ridicule you for making an absolute statement.

You're an educated man and you know there is no such thing.

They are both exceedingly technical.

 

[Jagcorps_esq]

No they are from MMA I would say. Many wrestlers have an interest in MMA, if they went to a BJJ class and learnt a submission from there, then perhaps you could say BJJ.

Now you are being semantic and unnecessarily divisive. This is what makes you a troll.

MMA has submissions because of Royce Gracie....or at least, MMA has submissions because of the contributions of arts like BJJ and judo.

 

[joe90210]

No they are from MMA I would say. Many wrestlers have an interest in MMA, if they went to a BJJ class and learnt a submission from there, then perhaps you could say BJJ.

you are either a huge troll or stupid as fuck, either way you are stupid as fuck