Why is there a misconception among BJJ practitioners that...

[DeathMetalHead]

I have heard many BJJ guys discussing how technical BJJ is and they appear to have a belief that wrestling does not share an equal amount of technical understanding.

This has really confused me, I understand that in the sport of wrestling the importance of strength and conditioning is increased. However this does not mean technical ability is decreased.

I am of the opposite opinion that wrestling includes not only more technical skills but is a lot more technical sport and is much harder to master technically.
To compete in wrestling at a high level your technical ability needs to be on a scientific level.

However because the standard of wrestling is much higher than BJJ's standard there is also increased fitness, strength and athletic ability of high level competitors.

This should not be surprising because wrestling is a much older sport and is an Olympic sport. BJJ by comparison is just a baby and as yet has not even developed a proper world championships or any form of standardisation.

I would advice in the future for BJJ practitioners not to be so arrogant with their claims of technical sophistication and to just enjoy their sport.

Discuss.

 

[brollikk]

bro I will just make this quick.

If you can only do bjj or if you can only wrestle, you are not a complete grappler. Some part of your game will look like shit, unless you do both.

At high levels, you need to have strength and conditioning for both sports. Its just that its easier to casually compete in bjj because of novice/beginner/intermediate divisions offered at local tournaments. If every tournament you competed in was like districts/regionals/states etc, it would be the equivalent to only entering advanced divisions at naga/grapplers quest and then moving on to the pan ams or something of that sort.

I assure you, nobody in those divisions who are worth their salt have the mentality that strength/conditioning isn't required.

 

[Steelviper]

I would advice you check this out:
They're/their/there

I'm not sure that the Olympic status of wrestling has any bearing on how technical it is.

There are wrestling techniques. There are BJJ techniques. You better be really good at those techniques in either discipline if you want to compete at the highest levels...

 

[Wolfrez]

Why all the one sides arguements. At least state good and bad of each and make a conclusion instead of a nut hug statement that totally disregards Bjj.

Wrestling is sure legit and scientific however there is still the fact that strength and conditioning can win you fights, even on a world scale. In BJJ we see smaller and less conditioned fighters whoop some serious ass without even breaking a sweat. They are completely different sports.

 

[DeathMetalHead]

bro I will just make this quick.

If you can only do bjj or if you can only wrestle, you are not a complete grappler. Some part of your game will look like shit, unless you do both.

At high levels, you need to have strength and conditioning for both sports. Its just that its easier to casually compete in bjj because of novice/beginner/intermediate divisions offered at local tournaments. If every tournament you competed in was like districts/regionals/states etc, it would be the equivalent to only entering advanced divisions at naga/grapplers quest and then moving on to the pan ams or something of that sort.

I assure you, nobody in those divisions who are worth their salt have the mentality that strength/conditioning isn't required.

I don't recognise this term complete grappler. In BJJ it may be beneficial to learn wrestling or judo, but in wrestling there is little advantage of learning submission techniques and therefore outside of interest there is no point.


Although you claim that BJJ guys are dedicated to strength and conditioning it appears to me that many BJJ practitioners find the idea of advanced S&C alien to their sport and promote the technical superiority of BJJ however erroneous that may be.

 

[Spoken]

1. However because the standard of wrestling is much higher than BJJ's standard there is also increased fitness, strength and athletic ability of high level competitors.

2.This should not be surprising because wrestling is a much older sport and is an Olympic sport. BJJ by comparison is just a baby and as yet has not even developed a proper world championships or any form of standardisation.

3. I would advice in the future for BJJ practitioners not to be so arrogant with their claims of technical sophistication and to just enjoy their sport.

Discuss.

1. The standard of wrestling is higher than BJJ? Are you kidding me? When it comes to top competition with Roger or Rafa, the athletic ability and necessity for athletic ability is right up there with top wrestlers. To think other wise is ridiculous. The time and dedication of a world BJJ champion is equal to that of an olympic wrestler, no doubt. Constant training and grooming from a young age and being constantly aware of your diet and skills.

2. So because its not an olympic sport... its not a real sport? what are you saying? Like EVERY sport, there is always an organization that steps up and 'unifies' the rules. However, its kind of a lie. The MLB does not own the concept of baseball, the NFL does not own the concept of football and no one owns the concept of wrestling. There are certain organization that have more sway in the BJJ or wrestling 'community' or 'culture' but no one owns it and really has a right to define it...except within its own organization.

3. Your own arrogance and sweeping statement destroyed your argument from the beginning. Way to fail

 

[DeathMetalHead]

1. The standard of wrestling is higher than BJJ? Are you kidding me? When it comes to top competition with Roger or Rafa, the athletic ability and necessity for athletic ability is right up there with top wrestlers. To think other wise is ridiculous. The time and dedication of a world BJJ champion is equal to that of an olympic wrestler, no doubt. Constant training and grooming from a young age and being constantly aware of your diet and skills.

2. So because its not an olympic sport... its not a real sport? what are you saying? Like EVERY sport, there is always an organization that steps up and 'unifies' the rules. However, its kind of a lie. The MLB does not own the concept of baseball, the NFL does not own the concept of football and no one owns the concept of wrestling. There are certain organization that have more sway in the BJJ or wrestling 'community' or 'culture' but no one owns it and really has a right to define it...except within its own organization.

3. Your own arrogance and sweeping statement destroyed your argument from the beginning. Way to fail

1. You appear to be very naive if you think Roger Gracie can compare on a technical, and physical levels to top wrestlers. I am willing to bet you couldn't name a single top wrestler off the top of your head. Let me put it this way, King Mo (possible the most physically impressive MMA fighter right now) couldn't even make the US team.

2. Jiu Jitsu as a sport appears to be in a shambles, they can't decide on rules or standardisation. They take off their gi and call it no gi jiu jitsu, you can have twenty people from Brazil in their 'world championships'. Regardless the prestige of winning an Olympic gold medal and the associated funding and quality of athletes differentiates the level of wrestlers from BJJ practitioners. After all you don't even need to qualify for the mundials.

3. Your naivety supplied me with a good laugh.

 

[DeathMetalHead]

I would advice you check this out:
They're/their/there

I'm not sure that the Olympic status of wrestling has any bearing on how technical it is.

There are wrestling techniques. There are BJJ techniques. You better be really good at those techniques in either discipline if you want to compete at the highest levels...

Please explain.

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

Man, this place is full of these 2010 trolls.

10s are the worst.

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

This thread will be great when the catch guys get wind of it...

 

[Mike Wilson Jr.]

I don't recognise this term complete grappler. In BJJ it may be beneficial to learn wrestling or judo, but in wrestling there is little advantage of learning submission techniques and therefore outside of interest there is no point.


Although you claim that BJJ guys are dedicated to strength and conditioning it appears to me that many BJJ practitioners find the idea of advanced S&C alien to their sport and promote the technical superiority of BJJ however erroneous that may be.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!

 

[DeathMetalHead]

Is claiming someone is a troll the internet equivalent of spitting your dummy out of the pram?

 

[Spoken]

1. You appear to be very naive if you think Roger Gracie can compare on a technical, and physical levels to top wrestlers. I am willing to bet you couldn't name a single top wrestler off the top of your head. Let me put it this way, King Mo (possible the most physically impressive MMA fighter right now) couldn't even make the US team.

2. Jiu Jitsu as a sport appears to be in a shambles, they can't decide on rules or standardisation. They take of their gi and call it no gi jiu jitsu, you can have twenty people from Brazil in their 'world championships'. Regardless the prestige of winning an Olympic gold medal and the associated funding and quality of athletes differentiates the level of wrestlers from BJJ practitioners. After all you don't even need to qualify for the mundials.

3. Your naivety supplied me with a good laugh.

I can probably name the starter on the US National team for freestyle in every weight to be honest.

1. how I am naive? What scale are you ranking technicality on and physical athletic ability? How are you doing that? What system are you using and who said that that is the universal system of judging these things?
Are you a black belt in Jiu Jitsu? Did you make the US team? What experience do you have in judging these things?

2. Jiu Jitsu is fragmented because no one single organization is dominating...which is better to some because they dont want the sport homogenized (Definition of the stupid .
Your comment on Gi and no Gi is like me saying Freestyle and Greco roman who that wrestling is inconsistent and poorly managed... they can't even decide on rules. OR, is it two different forms of wrestling? Just like gi and no gi can be 2 different forms of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu competition. Funny.

3. Your stupidity is also funny. But hey, at least we're both laughing.

 

[UpaLoompa]

1. You appear to be very naive if you think Roger Gracie can compare on a technical, and physical levels to top wrestlers.

The physical and technical aspects are quite different. Roger's technical and physical level is as high in bjj as a gold medalist wrestler's is in wrestling. To suggest otherwise is actually the naive position.

 

[supersuk]

Buvaisar Saitiev

trumps both sides of the argument

 

[TalkShowOnMute]

Is claiming someone is a troll the internet equivalent of spitting your dummy out of the pram?

No it is just a simple statement. A fact, more specifically.

Welcome 2010 noob with 9 posts trolling the forum!

 

[joe90210]

1. You appear to be very naive if you think Roger Gracie can compare on a technical, and physical levels to top wrestlers. I am willing to bet you couldn't name a single top wrestler off the top of your head. Let me put it this way, King Mo (possible the most physically impressive MMA fighter right now) couldn't even make the US team.

2. Jiu Jitsu as a sport appears to be in a shambles, they can't decide on rules or standardisation. They take off their gi and call it no gi jiu jitsu, you can have twenty people from Brazil in their 'world championships'. Regardless the prestige of winning an Olympic gold medal and the associated funding and quality of athletes differentiates the level of wrestlers from BJJ practitioners. After all you don't even need to qualify for the mundials.

3. Your naivety supplied me with a good laugh.

wow that's awesome, but guess what! Roger Gracie would choke all those wrestlers unconscious if they rolled.

 

[Spoken]

Listen dude... the sports are different and attempting different things. Its difficult to say "oh, this guy is a better athlete than this guy" when their sports are trying to achieve different things.
Creating a criteria that would do everyone justice is impossible. There is no objective way to say which athlete is better.
Is Randy Moss a better athlete than Obenson Blanc? I don't know. I have no way of judging it and thinking that I can do so objectively.

In other words, most BJJ practitioners DONT think they're better athletes and have NO reason to even discuss it. Its not important... Its as foreign as discussing Randy Moss or Tiger Woods. It isn't until they're on the mat together and are forced to compete under unified rules that the debate sparks. Wrestler will beat the BJJ guy at wrestling... the BJJ guy will submit the wrestler for BJJ rules. Why, because the worlds are separate.

Its when folks cross train and the wrestler needs submissions or submission defense and when the jiu jitsu practitioner needs wrestling that it gets interesting...

 

[knoxpk]

This thread will be great when the catch guys get wind of it...

There ya go...LOL.....

The physical and technical aspects are quite different. Roger's technical and physical level is as high in bjj as a gold medalist wrestler's is in wrestling. To suggest otherwise is actually the naive position.

Agreed!



BTW I do agree this is a troll attempt but be serious for a second and tell me that many guys who never wrestled but do BJJ do NOT think wrestling is all about "power" and less technical than BJJ?

I think once guys get to the Blue/Purple level and start really working on top control and takedowns thye realize that both are equally technical.

In fact I would say that some of my most technical instruction came through a wrestling coach.

Anyway, the point is there is that stereotype out there and there is no denying it..BUT that is generally the ignorant that are making thos comments.

 

[DonkeyKong]

This is a simple matter:

1- BJJ guys said it because they have been defeating wrestlers in challenges since the 1930s. Remember what Rickson did to Olympic gold medalist Mark Schultz. But it is a different standard, which brings us to point 2

2- There is NO comparison between the skill curve of the BJJ world and the wrestling world. Right now the sport is only growing and the bar is (relatively) so low that a person can become world black belt champion in 4-6 years of training.

4-6 years of wrestling training doesn't even get you into the US National team unless you were a phenomenal college standout, and even so it's just a chance to actually compete against the best in the world in the Olympics.

The talent pool in wrestling is much bigger, the sports has been set and built upon in terms of strategy for a long time now, there is no comparison.


Roger's skill relative to his peers is as great as a top wrestler towards his own. But you can apply that to anything. I am to my friends what Roger is to the black belts in the world. Does that mean that Roger and I are on the same level? Of course not. His pool is much bigger and more significant.

Same goes for wrestling. The wrestling pool is much bigger and more significant and the difference between Karelin and the millions of wrestlers worldwide is much steeper than Roger's and the that of those tens of thousands of BJJ practitioners out there.