Why is Sherdog okay with tapping to submissions but not tapping to strikes?

[chrass]

Tap to submissions and there’s no shame but tapping to strikes and you’re on Sherdog’s shit list.

Because were mostly fans not pro mma fighters

 

[Robbie Corleone]

There's something dishonourable about tapping to strikes.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

You’re mixing too many things at the same time here

It was known for a long time that getting hit in the head isn’t a good thing

Term “punch drunk” been around for a long time n it refers to boxers who have been hit too many times n they had slurred speech or showed signs of Dementia

There’s also Ali n his Parkinson disease was believed to be linked to his boxing career

Everybody’s pretty much aware that blows to the head are not good n can cause neurological problems later on

As fighter you gotta accept these things n be aware that fighting might lead to brain/head problems later on

If you’re concerned with these issues then fighting career isn’t the best path

Tapping to strikes to avoid couple of extra punches isn’t gonna change much in a long fighting career where a person is gonna get hit to the head over 1000 times

It’s like going to the Vegas n losing 10000$ In casinos but then getting upset for spending 100$ in a strip joint n acting like the reason you have 10100$ less in your bank account is the strippers

Also like somebody else already mentioned if your hands are free to tap, you can do something else instead. Try to improve your position, block, tie the guy up ...

In a sub you’re stuck. You can move try to escape, but when the sub is deep you know it n it’s either you’re gonna go to sleep or get your limb broken. The ref will not step in after you’re out/have broken limb

With strikes the ref will step in before you go completely out.

Another thing with tapping is you’re not protecting yourself. You give your opponent an opening to hit you without you protecting yourself.

You’re better off covering up n protecting yourself n let the ref step in then tapping n letting your opponent hit you straight in the face with no protection

It was thought that it took a large number of head strikes (as in years of accumulated strikes) to cause damage. Which is why it was thought okay even for kids to be knocked out several times in a single hockey game - the understanding was that it'd take years for the KO's to add up to a problem. Even protective parents would tell their kid to get back on their feet and be on the ice the next shift, because that was accepted medical knowledge.

Its the same theory that says getting hit four or five more times when you're already going unconscious from brain trauma isn't a problem - the additive factor of individual strikes was thought to be minimal. Unfortunately we now know better, and in fact taking a hit when you're already concussed (ie going unconscious) has a significant multiplier affect on the severity of damage.

I agree that a fighter has to be aware and accept this. I just don't see how that's any different than saying a fighter has to be aware and accept being choked out or having a broken limb from not tapping - if the idea is you never give up, then its just as reasonable to tell a fighter to refuse to tap given the risk a broken limb or being choked out as it is to tell them to risk increased brain damage.

You're stuck in sub, but there's always a non-zero chance of getting out. Your opponent might screw up; its why in old time judo you never tapped, not for chokes, not for arm bars. It was considered unmanly to tap rather than accept a broken arm or torn knee (knee bars were part of judo til 1925). My first judo coach was from that era of judo, and he'd frown at any of his students to tapped rather than accepting a torn limb, and for the same reason that you frown at a fighter who taps because of strikes. He'd say there's always a chance, bushido meant never giving up. In retrospect I think he's wrong, and I think you're wrong for the same reason ... counting on your opponent to screw up, or for the referee to see that your arm is bending unnaturally or that you're going unconscious is relying on another person to save you ... its telling you you're a victim who needs a ref to keep you from serious harm.

Have you ever gone unconscious from a head blow (or blows), and gone unconscious from a choke. I have from both (putting a head through a windshield is not something I'd recommend if you want to try it - lots of bleeding along with the concussion). You really have no more control of your body with the head blow than you do the strike.

Sometimes I get the feeling you're talking about fighters tapping while completely conscious, just because they don't like getting hit, the equivalent of someone tapping because someone has a very loose choke or armbar on. Panic tapping (you see it in judo with beginners, and I'm sure in amateur MMA). But that's not what's happening at the UFC level. Guys tap to armbars because their arms are bending, guys tap to chokes because they're going out, guys tap to strikes because they're going out.

And when you're losing consciousness you have no more ability to protect yourself from a strike than you do from a choke - the tap is a reflex at that point, the hand does it by itself (again, speaking from plenty of experience with chokes, mine and others).

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

I don't train, but if I recall correctly, the calf crusher is considered a "pain move", but at least two fighters tapped out when caught in it.

It is mainly a pain move; I didn't realize UFC fighters have tapped to it. Are you sure they weren't being applied to the Achilles tendon, which can snap? If not, I stand corrected.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

There's something dishonourable about tapping to strikes.

Yup, its as dishonourable as tapping to chokes and locks. And my first judo teacher (from the old days in Japan) used to say no real judoka would avoid a broken arm by tapping in competition - you fought the lock until things broke. And tapping to chokes was, in his opinion, downright cowardly.

Brain damage, broken arms, torn knees, they're all part of MMA. If you can't accept them, you shouldn't be in the sport.

 

[kabanos]

Bcoz 99% of sherdoggers biggest fight was when their mom slapped them in the face for eating ice cream before dinner.

1%is fine with it bcoz they know what damage can be taken

 

[Aslan]

tapping to strikes is the most embarrassing way to lose a fight.

the other fighter basically owns your soul for the remainder of your career.

/thread

This.

Look, tapping to submissions is an inherent part of the bjj game. It’s part of the decorum of that sport. If you have any bjj raining you know being caught in a triangle or an rnc, that it’s over. Tapping is part of the basic tenants of the submission grappling sport.

When you tap to strikes you are overriding the purpose of the ref. The ref is there to save you. We’ve heard fighters say that if you’re in the fight you are always trying to find a way to win. Tapping to strikes is just plain giving up.

I’ve trained in martial arts my whole life (never with any intent to do it professionally) and in bjj/mma for the last 8 years. I had a conversation with a fighter once about this and his response was, “it never even occurred to me that I could tap to strikes. That’s lame. Cowardly.” To paraphrase his response.

I tend to agree. You see fighters go out on their shields and some even go to sleep or get their limbs broken. No shame in tapping to a submission but tapping to strikes does seem cowardly and unsettling to see.

I think it’s been largely defended because some fan favorite fighters like gsp have done it and it’s a hard pill for their fans to swallow.

 

[IIIIIIII]

Not much. GSP? Hell yeah. Rose too. Funny BJ quit on his stool and gets way less flack than GSP for tapping.

I think he gets less flack because he quit due to fatigue, not because of strikes.

 

[wilKO]

I think he gets less flack because he quit due to fatigue, not because of strikes.

I think the absolute beat down he took was a big part of him not being able to continue. Which is why Shogun tapping to strikes wasn't the worst for me. He took a world of punishment in that fight and if it wasn't for his unbelievable ability to take punishment he would have lost by TKO way before the tap.

 

[milenss]

Tap to submissions and there’s no shame but tapping to strikes and you’re on Sherdog’s shit list.

Because GSP tapped to strikes. Anderson Silva tapped to submission.

 

[Shadowthrone]

Fighters don't care what some nerds on Sherdog think.

 

[TheRassler]

This.

Look, tapping to submissions is an inherent part of the bjj game. It’s part of the decorum of that sport. If you have any bjj raining you know being caught in a triangle or an rnc, that it’s over. Tapping is part of the basic tenants of the submission grappling sport.

When you tap to strikes you are overriding the purpose of the ref. The ref is there to save you. We’ve heard fighters say that if you’re in the fight you are always trying to find a way to win. Tapping to strikes is just plain giving up.

I’ve trained in martial arts my whole life (never with any intent to do it professionally) and in bjj/mma for the last 8 years. I had a conversation with a fighter once about this and his response was, “it never even occurred to me that I could tap to strikes. That’s lame. Cowardly.” To paraphrase his response.

I tend to agree. You see fighters go out on their shields and some even go to sleep or get their limbs broken. No shame in tapping to a submission but tapping to strikes does seem cowardly and unsettling to see.

I think it’s been largely defended because some fan favorite fighters like gsp have done it and it’s a hard pill for their fans to swallow.

Agreed.

Tapping to strikes basically means you’re giving up on yourself and everything you’ve worked for prior to the fight. But it doesn’t just mean you’re quitting on yourself, but you’re also quitting on your coaches and trainers. YOU determined when to give up before the ref gets there to save you and before your corner could throw in the towel.

It’s the equivalent of last year’s super bowl if New England would just give up before regulation, after being down 28-3 in the 3rd quarter and everyone on that team decides to quit and go home.

 

[Scurvydawg]

Because deep down everyone just wants to watch some good old hockey beatdowns.

These guys set the bar pretty high .

 

[Taric]

No matter how you slice it, this is comical to watch.

 

[Towerworld]

Agreed.

Tapping to strikes basically means you’re giving up on yourself and everything you’ve worked for prior to the fight. But it doesn’t just mean you’re quitting on yourself, but you’re also quitting on your coaches and trainers. YOU determined when to give up before the ref gets there to save you and before your corner could throw in the towel.

It’s the equivalent of last year’s super bowl if New England would just give up before regulation, after being down 28-3 in the 3rd quarter and everyone on that team decides to quit and go home.

except the losing team isn't grounded and having the literal shit being beaten out of them until they're unconscious, its to protect yourself and your future career as a fighter when the ref isn't doing his job. Lots of these guys don't have a proper education and would be screwed if they can no longer compete, is it worth it just to gain the respect of inbred just bleed fans on sherdog?

 

[TheRassler]

except the losing team isn't grounded and having the literal shit being beaten out of them until they're unconscious, its to protect yourself and your future career as a fighter. Lots of these guys don't have a proper education and would be screwed if they can no longer compete, is it worth it just to gain the respect of inbred just bleed fans on sherdog?

NFL is way more dangerous than MMA, it’s like telling the losing team why risk anymore injuries after getting destroyed for 3/4 of the game? The same people defending tapping to strikes should also say it’s not worth it to keep playing since the game is out of reach and everyone should just quit and go home.

 

[Towerworld]

NFL is way more dangerous than MMA, it’s like telling the losing team why risk anymore injuries after getting destroyed for 3/4 of the game. The same people defending tapping to strikes should also say it’s not worth it to keep playing since the game is out of reach and everyone should just quit and go home.

This is the dumbest argument I've ever seen on this subforum which has the dumbest posters on sherdog forums which overall has the dumbest community on the internet.

You seriously think a runningback is in more danger than these guys? Wow those guys really earned so much by "going out on their shields" rather then tapping to strikes right?

Your idol by the way tapped to strikes so i guess he's a total pussy right?

 

[melvinj0]

Because we are all big dick daddies with iron chins who would never tap to strikes

 

[IIIIIIII]

I think the absolute beat down he took was a big part of him not being able to continue. Which is why Shogun tapping to strikes wasn't the worst for me. He took a world of punishment in that fight and if it wasn't for his unbelievable ability to take punishment he would have lost by TKO way before the tap.

i disagree, but that's fine. to each his own.

 

[AnotherOldGuy]

NFL is way more dangerous than MMA, it’s like telling the losing team why risk anymore injuries after getting destroyed for 3/4 of the game? The same people defending tapping to strikes should also say it’s not worth it to keep playing since the game is out of reach and everyone should just quit and go home.

Same applies in even stronger terms to people defending tapping to chokes and locks, which are less damaging than strikes (ask any doctor).

Down on all tapping? Sure, that's at least consistent. Cherry picking the least damaging kinds of things to tap to as okay? That's simply silly. Its like saying its okay to tap to a chihuahua and a beagle but not to a pitbull.