Why is mission control not utilised more often in MMA?

[DanTheWolfman.com]

because overall been ineffective, because you can get smashed and passed. A good bjjer that has knowledge of 10th techniques can easily kill the bottom weak leg see George S vs Mark Bocek.

Also, you are thinking NY position, not just mission control. Yes, should know it because you can land good wraparound punches without getting hit. You have to have that arm controlled on the mat. And when guys switch to crackhead, most sweaty heads just back out and get out, go back to standing, and ref makes appt stand back up.

Overall though, leghook guard gives more options and can land nasty nasty elbows. U are seeing more guys go there, but some are hooking under the leg, and giving up on things working backwards. They do not know thoroughly enough and get rushed to be active and give up on it.

As a whole, 10th supposedly was about making jiu-jitsu work in MMA. Overall it has failed. It just sometimes can be effective from the highest level guys vs weaker grapplers. That is why in past years the system that sucked at leglocks focused only on leglocks and EBI Sub Only is their focus................which, since they never ever fixed their positional problems/wrestling, and now w EBI u can act like that is all cool and effective and shit, when not having wrestling to top positional dominance means now it is prob. even less effective as a style in MMA. Hech, is it even jiu-jitsu of any south mexican derivative if it does not focus on positional advancement?

The biggest thing this style gave MMA was spreading the use of the Old Catch Wrestling Scorpian Lock on the leg.........though for strange reasons got renamed a lockdown half-guard. Just having that survival position, even without good series of attacks, well u see what can do in 196 lb Anderson vs 218 lb I would guess DC. It was not rubber guard, nor is it truck/banana splits position..........those just scream cool look at me were different for differents sake.


NY and leghook guards should be known, as u can land more strikes than others.....forget about subs, that is after bonus, the main thing is hit and dont get hit guards, which they are. So yes important, but if u think being on ur back in MMA is a good thing u haven't practiced live sparring or been in a real fight.

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

In the rubber guard you are pulling someone down on top of you and shutting down their posture but you're also killing your own hip movement.

Agree with this 100%. If I have to use a rubber guard, I prefer Shawn Williams guard, feel little less restricted in the hips with the angle vs mission control (for bjj).

 

[dmwalking]

In my humble opinion it's because it's not a great idea. If you're on the bottom in MMA with short 5 minute rounds, you are losing if you don't get a submission. Getting a submission from the bottom is hard. In 2016 besides the rear naked choke and the guillotine there have only been a few darce chokes, a few arm triangles, a couple of armbars and a couple of triangles. That's it. Most of these were set up from the top also. From closed guard, rubber guard, butterfly guard, you name it I can only think of a handful of subs in the past few years. Establishing rubber guard isn't even that easy on someone that's sweating, and people's sub and sweep defense from the top in 2016 is excellent. The omoplata sweep is the main sweep from there. Again, it's not easy to set that up.

There has been 1 omoplata submission ever in the UFC and it wasn't until a couple of years ago and it actually was from the rubber guard. And Eddie Bravo was cornering the guy.

In the rubber guard you are pulling someone down on top of you and shutting down their posture but you're also killing your own hip movement. It's a good guard with a time and place for it, but in modern MMA you should be looking to sweep or stand up if you get put on your back. Side note. The people you're seeing sweeping or standing quickly in the UFC are usually doing so with butterfly guard, half guard, or even 1 leg x guard, but not so much from closed guard.

Great post. It really saddens me that the martial art that gave birth to the UFC and modern MMA has been so neutered by modern MMA rules and scoring.

TS, watch it attempted on Georges in various professional prize fights. Ineffective.

Using GSP as an example doesn't really work because there are about a dozen other fights where rubber guard is effective. Watching GSP slip a jab doesn't mean jabs are ineffective.

Couldn't tell ya. Hell, I tend not to even try subs from my back. Just sweeps, technical stand ups and reversals.

Honestly, I'm not even a MMA guy and this is still my approach to the bottom. Every so often I'll play with rubber guard (meathook to be specific) because I have a stupid simple triangle, omo, and gogo set up from there that doesn't require flexibility. But for the most part, when I'm on bottom, I'm looking to get out from the bottom. My guess is that MMA guys feel the same way.

 

[GKY]

Rubber guard has it's pros and cons. Different stages of it have different issues.

With regards to mission control the only high percentage sweep/submission is the omoplata and every high level grappler and MMA fighter is aware of it It requires a lot of hip flexibility which most people don't have, kills your hip mobility, and it can be really difficult getting someone to post their hand on the mat. Also if they step over your other foot you'll probably get passed.

The flexibility and hip mobility issue can be somewhat mitigated by playing on one side, but it's not too hard to flatten someone back out. On the plus side it keeps the other guys posture down, prevents him from landing hard strikes or standing up, allows you to land hard elbows of your own, and if nothing else you can stall for a stand up. There are also some sneaky armbars and triangles from mission control, so you're not totally devoid of options.

It seems to have more utility in MMA than traditional jiu jitsu because lots of fighters put themselves into closed guard and break their own posture, and it's good for not getting punched and stalling if necessary. Lots of people successfully used mission control rubber guard in MMA including Aoki, Homminick, Hazelet, and Imanari.

I feel like most of the time someone attempt the 2 leg versions of rubber guard like crackhead control people just back out. That would leave a limb exposed but generally they would have enough distance (and sweat in MMA) to mitigate the risk. Also you can't play the 2 leg versions on 1 hip so you need extreme amounts of hip dexterity in both legs. I can't recall a time someone was really successful with this type of rubber guard in MMA.

The high body triangle/dead orchard seems awesome though. It requires long legs and extreme hip flexibility, but it leaves your opponent totally exposed to endless amounts of elbows and the armbar. It's also a mild choke so it sapps their energy (but I imagine it gasses your legs too). Also its harder to back out of because of the pinch the triangle provides and it completely ruins your opponents posture and base when they do try to back out. I think Elvis Sinosic tapped Jeremy Horn with a high body triangle. It's also what Ben Saunders used in the UFC to beat those 2 guys.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Rubber guard has it's pros and cons. Different stages of it have different issues.

With regards to mission control the only high percentage sweep/submission is the omoplata and every high level grappler and MMA fighter is aware of it It requires a lot of hip flexibility which most people don't have, kills your hip mobility, and it can be really difficult getting someone to post their hand on the mat. Also if they step over your other foot you'll probably get passed.

The flexibility and hip mobility issue can be somewhat mitigated by playing on one side, but it's not too hard to flatten someone back out. On the plus side it keeps the other guys posture down, prevents him from landing hard strikes or standing up, allows you to land hard elbows of your own, and if nothing else you can stall for a stand up. There are also some sneaky armbars and triangles from mission control, so you're not totally devoid of options.

It seems to have more utility in MMA than traditional jiu jitsu because lots of fighters put themselves into closed guard and break their own posture, and it's good for not getting punched and stalling if necessary. Lots of people successfully used mission control rubber guard in MMA including Aoki, Homminick, Hazelet, and Imanari.

I feel like most of the time someone attempt the 2 leg versions of rubber guard like crackhead control people just back out. That would leave a limb exposed but generally they would have enough distance (and sweat in MMA) to mitigate the risk. Also you can't play the 2 leg versions on 1 hip so you need extreme amounts of hip dexterity in both legs. I can't recall a time someone was really successful with this type of rubber guard in MMA.

The high body triangle/dead orchard seems awesome though. It requires long legs and extreme hip flexibility, but it leaves your opponent totally exposed to endless amounts of elbows and the armbar. It's also a mild choke so it sapps their energy (but I imagine it gasses your legs too). Also its harder to back out of because of the pinch the triangle provides and it completely ruins your opponents posture and base when they do try to back out. I think Elvis Sinosic tapped Jeremy Horn with a high body triangle. It's also when Ben Saunders used in the UFC to beat those 2 guys.

great post.

 

[DanTheWolfman.com]

Like I said, NY is important to know. People never consider shoulder width vs leg length to rubber guard success. Most 170lber up UFC guys have such wide shoulders, that upperweight RG is way less effective. Think GSP or Woodley's 200lbers shoulders and V'd little waist ur legs are sliding down their back....especially w a little extra corner grease hugged in....!

but leghook guard is perhaps better overall, and for MMA, and for not requiring flexibility.


This might help some dudes too


Just fyi, I did get purple and spent 2 1/2 yrs in 10th system