Why is mission control not utilised more often in MMA?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by senyster, Aug 8, 2016.

  1. senyster

    senyster White Belt

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    I am a BJJ newb, with my (lack of) knowledge pretty much based on years of watching MMA and the occasional no-gi contest.

    That being said, could anyone explain why the rubber guard, more specifically mission control, isn't used more often in MMA? When we actually do get to see it, it seems pretty effective at nullifying offense while also making attacking possible.

    EDIT: Might it be that it is simply not as useful, or is it instead that it's just not very widespread?
     
  2. mataleaos

    mataleaos Brown Belt

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    In my humble opinion it's because it's not a great idea. If you're on the bottom in MMA with short 5 minute rounds, you are losing if you don't get a submission. Getting a submission from the bottom is hard. In 2016 besides the rear naked choke and the guillotine there have only been a few darce chokes, a few arm triangles, a couple of armbars and a couple of triangles. That's it. Most of these were set up from the top also. From closed guard, rubber guard, butterfly guard, you name it I can only think of a handful of subs in the past few years. Establishing rubber guard isn't even that easy on someone that's sweating, and people's sub and sweep defense from the top in 2016 is excellent. The omoplata sweep is the main sweep from there. Again, it's not easy to set that up.

    There has been 1 omoplata submission ever in the UFC and it wasn't until a couple of years ago and it actually was from the rubber guard. And Eddie Bravo was cornering the guy.

    In the rubber guard you are pulling someone down on top of you and shutting down their posture but you're also killing your own hip movement. It's a good guard with a time and place for it, but in modern MMA you should be looking to sweep or stand up if you get put on your back. Side note. The people you're seeing sweeping or standing quickly in the UFC are usually doing so with butterfly guard, half guard, or even 1 leg x guard, but not so much from closed guard.
     
  3. EndlessCritic

    EndlessCritic Gold Belt

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    Actually, MMA is currently in a sad state where the fighter on the bottom wants to stall as much as possible so that the referee will stand them up.

    OP, for current rubber guard players in the UFC, see Ben Saunders, Joe Soto (round 1 vs tanaka), and Jason Knight. Jason Knight's rubber guard was very effective against Khamanaev outside the UFC, but Kawajiri crushed him.
     
  4. Kaffe

    Kaffe Brown Belt

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    I would say rubber guard has quite a bit of value for just elbowing the other guy silly, like Jason Day did against Alan Belcher. No need to get more fancy than that. Dunno why that isn't more prevalent among people who aren't great at popping right back up.
     
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  5. Ton

    Ton The master of Potato Plata

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    Whole 10th P system is supposed to be grappling designed for MMA. I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to BJJ implementation in MMA and it's nuances. Having said that, i'd be willing to argue that it works, but is underutilized.
     
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  6. mataleaos

    mataleaos Brown Belt

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    I don't disagree with that re: the stalling. And I also think there are effective rubber guard players, past and present.
     
  7. Uchi Mata

    Uchi Mata Preaching the gospel of heel hooks and left kicks

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    A simpler question is why we see so little offensive guard play in MMA in general. The answer is pretty simple: you don't get points for attacking from the bottom. You lose rounds. If you want to win rounds after getting taken down, you need to stand back up as fast as possible. The dominant strategy from the bottom is stand back up, and if you can't stand back up then try a quick sub or two and use the space created to try and get back up. Relying on bottom subs doesn't work very well in modern MMA. The closest you see are dedicated leg lockers like Held and Palhares, but they don't really play a lot of guard because your mobility can be shut down and you get punched (neither of which really happen when you're playing the leg game, unless you screw up badly).

    The guard game works better when you have no time limits, but even then it's pretty easy for even good guard players to get shut down and slowly beaten on ala Ken-Royce II. It's just hard to force anything from bottom guard in MMA, and no one these days is just going to give up an easy sub.
     
  8. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    What mataleoas said. If the judgment changes and someone can actually win a fight based on striking from his guard, th RG and mission control should be a wonderful guard...
     
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  9. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    this is entirely because of the rules, if you land on guard after a td, and you KNOW you can win the round by locking your opponent up and elbowing his face to death, you will do it... why wouldnt you? you were taken down aginst your will, ok no problem, now do something with it, staying on top is not enough you ahve to hurt your opponent, it would be enough to win the round if the guy on bottom is not doing jack shit either, but if the guy on bottom gets to mission control and starts throwing elbows, that shit doesnt feel good at all, you have to get out of there, but right now, you dont know what the judge will score, so you better off getting up and not gambling at the judges scores...

    right now there no motivation NOR IT should be to play guard, but there shouldnt either be artificial motivation to NOT play guard, which there is a lot now.

    Also, most guys coming to the UFC are boxers/wrestlers/strikers or mma fighters that have been coming up with this set of rules, so yeah you know what to except. You will only see guard players when bjj fighters jumpt to mma, at least will see the chance to.
     
  10. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    mission control is not regular close guard, if you can keep the person in there, you can hit more than you can get hit back. the problem is right now, no matter how much you hit, you are still going to lose the round, so people just say fuck it.

    It doesn't help that you need a good amount of flexibility than not everyone possesses it.
     
  11. TS, watch it attempted on Georges in various professional prize fights. Ineffective.
     
  12. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    GSP?
     
  13. Badger67

    Badger67 Taxidea taxus

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    Comparing the effectiveness of move XYZ on an the elitist of the elite is not a great litmus test for the success or ineffectiveness of a move/gameplan. GSP is GSP. He doesn't make the same mistake twice often, is strong as hell, incredibly athletic, and the GOAT of WW.
     
  14. Badger67

    Badger67 Taxidea taxus

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    It's a good thing they have changed the rules lately, not sure if you saw it this week. Even pawing out with the hands is a foul if the fingers are extended ALA jon jones.
     
  15. mataleaos

    mataleaos Brown Belt

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    Yeah this is so true. I would love to see a breakdown of where the UFC submissions for 2016 have come from so far. The majority I can think of are from the top or from someone being rocked with shots and then submitted. There are some classic bottom subs in ufc and pride that come to mind. Pettis armlocking Bendo. Silva triangling Sonnen and Lutter. Big Nog's triangle armbar on Mark Coleman. Mir's armbar on Sylvia and his "Mir lock". Royce Gracie's triangle on Dan Severn.

    The high profile ones are the ones that come to mind. Some others that come to mind are Palhares' various outside heel hooks, Charles Oliveira's calf slicer from his back, Mitch Clarke's brabo/darce choke on Al Iaquinta from bottom side control, Nate Diaz triangle choking Pelligrino off that slam. Nick Diaz and Shinya Aoki's gogoplatas.

    I'm sure there are many more. I was stretching my brain there.
     
  16. BJJ_Rage

    BJJ_Rage Gold Belt

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    didnt watch mma this weekend, I will watch next one though :D
     
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  17. Badger67

    Badger67 Taxidea taxus

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  18. mcdowels

    mcdowels Brown Belt

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    it seemed to be used alot a few years ago and then fell out of favor again
     
  19. MC Paul Barman

    MC Paul Barman Gold Belt Platinum Member

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    It's too sexy for home viewing audiences.
     
  20. Clinchster

    Clinchster Green Belt

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    Couldn't tell ya. Hell, I tend not to even try subs from my back. Just sweeps, technical stand ups and reversals.
     
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