Why is it ok to discriminate against smokers...

I have had fat neighbors and smokers as neighbors. Who do you think affected me more. My neighbors that smoked would smoke about 2 packs a day. So they were outside smoking quite often. It sucked that I couldn't be in my backyard without the smell of smoke. The build up from them smoking made it smell like an ashtray almost all the time even when they weren't smoking. So yeah the fatties just stay inside and the smokers made it so enjoying my backyard couldn't be done without smelling cigarettes.
 
Real_Magi said:
Second hand smoke has never been scientifically linked to adverse effects on a person's health.
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I assume you are ignoring people with asthma and other respiratory issues in this statement and concentrating specifically on cancer, right?
 
Loiosh said:
You should stop saying this like you know what you're talking about, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

You don't like fat people, that's fine, but you're not a doctor, or a dietician, and there have been numerous studies that say you're wrong.
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I'm sorry that you cannot accept that this is treatable -as obesity rose from essential almost no one (except the wealthy) in the US after grain based stores became the primary food source for America (especially after WW1 and 2) it caused obesity to be seen as more normal and eventually because of volume -doctors started viewing it as a baseline state -when in fact it is not at all.

For most, their metabolism has been obliterated by the diet, choices,and lifestyle they have been taught which was directed by corporations advertising and encouraging foods that could be stored long term and have higher profitability. Pretty soon the Western Diet was actually taught as fundamental and healthy -even in schools!

but you have to break free and take control

I got faith in you man -you can't deter me no matter what you say -I know you have the fire inside.
 
It's ok to discriminate ,try it
Fatties and smokers alike

No one will stop you
 
I smoke. But I am 100% ok with taxes on cigarettes and non-smoking areas as well as anything else that would be considered discrimination. Smoking results in negative externalities for those around you. So does being fat. But the reason fatties don't face as harsh discrimination as smokers is for a couple of reasons:
1. Being fat does negatively affect other people through increased health care costs, fewer seats in venues to accommodate fatties, etc. But they do not directly affect other people, and certainly not to the extent that second hand smoke does.
2. Some people can't help but be fat. I know the majority can and just make excuses. But for some, it really is a medical condition. By discriminating against them all, completely innocent people would be punished when it's not warranted. Smoking is 100% a person's choice.
 
SevenSamurai said:
I'm sorry that you cannot accept that this is treatable -as obesity rose from essential almost no one (except the wealthy) in the US after grain based stores became the primary food source for America (especially after WW1 and 2) it caused obesity to be seen as more normal and eventually because of volume -doctors started viewing it as a baseline state -when in fact it is not at all.

For most, their metabolism has been obliterated by the diet, choices,and lifestyle they have been taught which was directed by corporations advertising and encouraging foods that could be stored long term and have higher profitability. Pretty soon the Western Diet was actually taught as fundamental and healthy -even in schools!

but you have to break free and take control

I got faith in you man -you can't deter me no matter what you say -I know you have the fire inside.
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I know that nothing I can say will change your mind, you're a fit person who doesn't like fat people. On some level feeling better than fat people is a very basic and fundamental part of who you are as a person.

You called me brainwashed the other day, and I explained that I wasn't using this as an excuse to sit back and do nothing. I have fought with this since childhood, and put a ton of work in managing my weight. Managing weight has a different difficulty level for everyone one the planet, and my slider is set higher than I'd like, but I've accepted that and I'm doing the work.

Is there some reason why your opinion on this subject should mean anything to anyone? Do you have some expertize on weight management?

Everyone knows that the lion's share of blame when it comes to obesity lies with personal choice*, and that choice is the single biggest determining factor in managing weight. What some people don't understand or won't admit it that it's a lot more difficult (on a genetic level) for some people than it is for others. This isn't a situation where 1% of people having a defect and the rest of the world is on the same footing, that's demonstrably ridiculous.

*Choices we make, and choices that were made for us as children.
 
Loiosh said:
I know that nothing I can say will change your mind, you're a fit person who doesn't like fat people. On some level feeling better than fat people is a very basic and fundamental part of who you are as a person.

You called me brainwashed the other day, and I explained that I wasn't using this as an excuse to sit back and do nothing. I have fought with this since childhood, and put a ton of work in managing my weight. Managing weight has a different difficulty level for everyone one the planet, and my slider is set higher than I'd like, but I've accepted that and I'm doing the work.
Is there some reason why your opinion on this subject should mean anything to anyone? Do you have some expertize on weight management?

Everyone knows that the lion's share of blame when it comes to obesity lies with personal choice*, and that choice is the single biggest determining factor in managing weight. What some people don't understand or won't admit it that it's a lot more difficult (on a genetic level) for some people than it is for others. This isn't a situation where 1% of people having a defect and the rest of the world is on the same footing, that's demonstrably ridiculous.

*Choices we make, and choices that were made for us as children.
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I'm rooting for you Loioish -you can't be mean enough to me to not be hoping you attain your health goals.

As for expertise -I've helped dozens of people lose weight by supporting them and holding them accountable on a daily basis in my lifetime. Most recently, my friend who was obese since 17 got to over 350 before he was hospitalized, broke down and decided to change to save his marriage and life -To start I took him to a 300ft hill in Lithonia GA called Mt Arabi to convince him that he could make it to the top -he cried when he got to the top. Since, I have spent as many days possible in the last three years introducing him to exercises to keep him focused and he's introduced me to some as well. We've climbed several mountains in Alaska together this year, 2 in Puerto Rico and at least 30 from California to Maine, kayaked class 3-4 rapids last year, ran in those adventure mud runs together, and all kinds of other things he thought he would never ever do. In fact he's better at diet and exercise than I am now and keeps me on point. He's at 245 now and still dropping (his goal is 200) -so yeah I have some experience helping people -but none being obese.

We are doing Kilimanjaro together in fall of 2014 -Want to join us and help change your life?
 
SevenSamurai said:
I'm rooting for you Loioish -you can't be mean enough to me to not be hoping you attain your health goals.

As for expertise -I've helped dozens of people lose weight by supporting them and holding them accountable on a daily basis in my lifetime. Most recently, my friend who was obese since 17 got to over 350 before he was hospitalized, broke down and decided to change to save his marriage and life -To start I took him to a 300ft hill in Lithonia GA called Mt Arabi to convince him that he could make it to the top -he cried when he got to the top. Since, I have spent as many days possible in the last three years introducing him to exercises to keep him focused and he's introduced me to some as well. We've climbed several mountains in Alaska together this year, 2 in Puerto Rico and at least 30 from California to Maine, kayaked class 3-4 rapids last year, ran in those adventure mud runs together, and all kinds of other things he thought he would never ever do. In fact he's better at diet and exercise than I am now and keeps me on point. He's at 245 now and still dropping (his goal is 200) -so yeah I have some experience helping people -but none being obese.

We are doing Kilimanjaro together in fall of 2014 -Want to join us and help change your life?
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I'm not "being mean" to you, I'm objecting to this fallacy:

if you could possibly follow every instruction given by a doctor or health/fitness professional -YOU WOULD NOT BE FAT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE.
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It simply isn't true, and that's a scientific fact. This is just you saying "Hey fatso, you suck and it's all your fault. I'm better than you."

And thanks, but I don't see myself doing Kilimanjaro with a total stranger I met on the internet.
 
Loiosh said:
I'm not "being mean" to you, I'm objecting to this fallacy:



It simply isn't true, and that's a scientific fact. This is just you saying "Hey fatso, you suck and it's all your fault. I'm better than you."
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nice editing of my comment to support yours.

It's interesting how you interpret things -You have a lifetime of bad experience to be thinking I'm calling you fatso, or that you suck, or that I'm better than you.

none of which are true.

-and the idea that genetics made you fat is not true either.
 
I smoked for many years, a decade approximately, and when I smoked I asked myself the same question. Why is it okay to discriminate against smokers?

I was oblivious to how awful the smoke was to non-smokers. The same goes for the stench of tobacco and other chemicals in the cigarettes. When you're enthralled in the act, you're so use to these things that it does not strike you as to what kind of a burden it is on others.

The smoke, both from burning and exhaling drifts to others. They inhale it, have to walk through it and its simply put, fucking nasty. After I quit, it dawned on me fairly quickly how offensive that shit is to others. I honestly become irritated with smokers now, even those who go outside to do it because I have to deal with their problem. Their problem becomes my problem. I choose not to deal with it, yet I am forced too all to often.

I actually grew up around two smokers in my parents, forced to deal with it every day, 2-4 packs a day between them since I was a wee lad. It was a normal part of life for me. It affected my siblings and I in a number of ways, from going to school smelling like cigarettes to how I performed in athletics. Its a real shame to put your kids through it when they have little option but to deal with it imo.

This is why smokers are dealing with tighter and tighter restrictions coupled with the effects of second hand smoke.
 
In general society fat people are the only addicts that it's not considered ok to discriminate against. I've always found this puzzling.
 
My dad did my the favor of smoking when I was a kid -which made me hate it and never do it..

I don't see the point of smoking something that doesn't get you really high anyways..
 
SevenSamurai said:
nice editing of my comment to support yours.
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What? What exactly did I edit?

SevenSamurai said:
-and the idea that genetics made you fat is not true either.
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You're mostly right.

I had a huge accident that made it several of my favorite activities impossible, my back, one knee, and my right arm were useless. I put on a hundred pounds.

I'm mostly recovered now and I'm working towards losing most of it, but even when I get there, I'll probably still be twenty pounds overweight. Even when I was running three to five miles a day and eating clean, that's the body fat threshold I could never break. To be honest, I accepted that a long time ago and was comfortable with my body because I was incredibly fit.

When I talk about you being wrong about the genetics it's because you seem to think it's the same for everyone, which is incorrect. Everyone knows this.
 
SevenSamurai said:
My dad did my the favor of smoking when I was a kid -which made me hate it and never do it..

I don't see the point of smoking something that doesn't get you really high anyways..
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I love smoking because I'm addicted to nicotine. I also hate it, for many reasons.

I'm smoke free two or three months now and feeling a lot better, but I miss it. Always will.

Disgusting habit, though, wish I had never been a smoker.
 
Loiosh said:
What? What exactly did I edit?



You're mostly right.

I had a huge accident that made it several of my favorite activities impossible, my back, one knee, and my right arm were useless. I put on a hundred pounds.

I'm mostly recovered now and I'm working towards losing most of it, but even when I get there, I'll probably still be twenty pounds overweight. Even when I was running three to five miles a day and eating clean, that's the body fat threshold I could never break. To be honest, I accepted that a long time ago and was comfortable with my body because I was incredibly fit.

When I talk about you being wrong about the genetics it's because you seem to think it's the same for everyone, which is incorrect. Everyone knows this.
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Good for you man, sorry to hear about you accident.

The fact is -I'm not talking about 20 pounds over weight or being chubby -I'm talking about being obese and gluttonous and I understand that it is much harder for some to lose but for 99% of the population their metabolism and state is the result of the western world we live in -which is full of the wrong things in the wrong amounts with the wrong pressures, stresses, and expectations compounding this. It a big health trap to listen to what the media says you should be consuming.

Unfortunately the problem is so common now that Doctors are giving up on addressing it as problem and instead treating it normal.
 
Loiosh said:
I love smoking because I'm addicted to nicotine. I also hate it, for many reasons.

I'm smoke free two or three months now and feeling a lot better, but I miss it. Always will.

Disgusting habit, though, wish I had never been a smoker.
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Nicotine is the worst....it's modern day slavery.

I have had friends quit Heroin before they could quit smoking -that's how powerful it is.
 
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