Opinion Why is Communism still around?

[grimballer]

Communism/socialism is good for developing countries 1st where majority of population has no access to things ppl in developed works take for granted (education, decent healthcare, decent standards of living...). Once these things are somewhat achieved socialism/communism should slowly morph into capitalism or mixed economy.

 

[AlexDB9]

They are old but technically under 80, actually just under 60 IIRC.

Not going to pretend that Fidel was the most savory and wholesome figure but it does seem pretty clear that the US would not tolerate a truly legitimate democracy in Cuba which is why they had a puppet leader and even the Cuban constitution allowed the US to intervene in Cuban affairs.

Being poor in Cuba sucks, you have limited access to electricity and running water and jobs and of course no internet. So lots to hold against the Cuban government but in comparison to other Latin American countries? The poor in Cuba have it very well off. I know you will pretend otherwise but that is the truth.

Well there you go, talk to some Cuban youth to get a real idea of Cuba

Pretend? Listen man there are plenty of crimes that take place in Cuba that will never be reported. I’ve heard of a man that got his head caved in with a bat this year....I mean it’s not favela cut off people’s heads on a soccer field bad, but shit does happen. That being said Cuba is probably the safest 3rd world country one could visit anywhere

You know my point has always been that even people in El Salvador have the luxury of seeking asylum in a country right next to them. Cubans do not have that luxury. Also I literally have family that live in dugout caves with rooms separated by sheets and dirt floors and others that live in high rise apartments in Havana because they have towed the party line for years.....there is a high level of poverty that you won’t even know about unless you visit

 

[Islam Imamate]

Well there you go, talk to some Cuban youth to get a real idea of Cuba

Pretend? Listen man there are plenty of crimes that take place in Cuba that will never be reported. I’ve heard of a man that got his head caved in with a bat this year....I mean it’s not favela cut off people’s heads on a soccer field bad, but shit does happen. That being said Cuba is probably the safest 3rd world country one could visit anywhere

You know my point has always been that even people in El Salvador have the luxury of seeking asylum in a country right next to them. Cubans do not have that luxury. Also I literally have family that live in dugout caves with rooms separated by sheets and dirt floors and others that live in high rise apartments in Havana because they have towed the party line for years.....there is a high level of poverty that you won’t even know about unless you visit

Like I said, being poor in Cuba sucks but that doesn't mean its not not less shit than in toehr countries, We see what happens when other Latin AMericans try to come to America, they're getting hti with tear gas and have to confront ICE. Cubans had a free pass for quite a bit and it was a 90 mile boat ride for them.

Why would I talk to young Cubans? Most of them are either born here and certainly don't remember Batista's Cuba. Because I'm not comparing Cuba to the US, it'd be a shithole compared to us whether it was communist or a banana republic market. I'm comparing it to other Latin American countries which faced the same fork in the road that Cuba did before its revolution.

 

[machidafan99]

certain people groups are easily herded & led

 

[AlexDB9]

Like I said, being poor in Cuba sucks but that doesn't mean its not not less shit than in toehr countries, We see what happens when other Latin AMericans try to come to America, they're getting hti with tear gas and have to confront ICE. Cubans had a free pass for quite a bit and it was a 90 mile boat ride for them.

Why would I talk to young Cubans? Most of them are either born here and certainly don't remember Batista's Cuba. Because I'm not comparing Cuba to the US, it'd be a shithole compared to us whether it was communist or a banana republic market. I'm comparing it to other Latin American countries which faced the same fork in the road that Cuba did before its revolution.

Ahhh bro did you just say it’s only a short 90 mile ride here? You do realize that at this point sharks in the Florida straights have a taste for Cubans right? I can’t believe you just wrote that

Cubans got a pass with wet foot dry foot when and if when they threw themselves into the ocean at night they were able to make it without being intercepted by the coast guard. That’s if they didn’t end up around Bermuda. I attempted to escape 17.....17 times and not once did I see the boat it’s not as simple as “just 90 miles” and like I keep telling you there’s no neighboring country to walk to..the scariest thing in the world is being in the middle of the ocean at night with only an idea on where to go. Seriously I’ll take the tear gas over that

Because the Cuban youth *in Cuba* are the ones being fucked over by the archaic system their grandparents taught and then got fucked over by themselves. I don’t know why you can’t believe Cuba is as bad as any other Latin American country you can name

 

[Islam Imamate]

Ahhh bro did you just say it’s only a short 90 mile ride here? You do realize that at this point sharks in the Florida straights have a taste for Cubans right? I can’t believe you just wrote that

Cubans got a pass with wet foot dry foot when and if when they threw themselves into the ocean at night they were able to make it without being intercepted by the coast guard. I attempted to escape 17.....17 times and not once did I see the boat it’s not as simple as “just 90 miles” and like I keep telling you there’s no neighboring country to walk to..

Yeah I undersold it a bit but the trip is also rough for other Latin Americans as well. As hard as it is for Cubans, and it is hard no doubt, I think its harder for other poor Latin Americans to make it to the US. At least under wet foot dry foot you were allowed to stay when you make it to the shore, most Latin Americans do not have that luxury.

Because the Cuban youth *in Cuba* are the ones being fucked over by the archaic system their grandparents taught and then got fucked over by themselves. I don’t know why you can’t believe Cuba is as bad as any other Latin American country you can name

Because they at least have basic healthcare and education and other amenities. I know clinics in Cuba aren't likely to have complimentary coffee and novellas playing in the lobby to say the least but its better than nothing which is what most poor Latin Americans have.

 

[GSP_37]

Power corrupts. Dictators have too much fun controlling all the money, resources, ho's.

 

[EradiatedHaggis]

It's clearly a disaster. It boggles the mind that people are willing to die for communism.

As long as uneducated people exist. As long as hate exists. Communism will exist. One must lack knowledge of the world and hate those that succeed in it for Communism to live.

 

[AlexDB9]

Yeah I undersold it a bit but the trip is also rough for other Latin Americans as well. As hard as it is for Cubans, and it is hard no doubt, I think its harder for other poor Latin Americans to make it to the US. At least under wet foot dry foot you were allowed to stay when you make it to the shore, most Latin Americans do not have that luxury.

Because they at least have basic healthcare and education and other amenities. I know clinics in Cuba aren't likely to have complimentary coffee and novellas playing in the lobby to say the least but its better than nothing which is what most poor Latin Americans have.

You think it’s harder to just walk over to the next country and seek asylum than throwing yourself into a dark abyss and risk being eaten by sharks and or drowning? Do you understand what political refugees are? There is no comparison to what Cubans have to go through...none bro and you wouldn’t make that comparison if you knew first hand

Ok let me explain this to you as well. Education in Cuba was above average until 1985. Nowadays it’s shit and you can buy a passing grade from your teacher for a plastic fan or some cooking pans. Healthcare is.....well let me put it to you this way, my lady’s aunt was diagnosed with cancer...do you know how long it would take her to see a doctor? 3 months. She is a doctor herself and pulled some strings, we sent some “gifts” and she was seen sooner. The best doctors are in Venezuela in exchange for oil. You have to know someone who knows someone who knows someone in another province that can maybe find you some medication. God help if you have no connections or a family member in the US. Again here you are wrong on many many levels. The running joke in Cuba is if you have cold by the time you’re seen by a doctor it’s gone....best healthcare ever

 

[Islam Imamate]

You think it’s harder to just walk over to the next country and seek asylum than throwing yourself into a dark abyss and risk being eaten by sharks and or drowning? Do you understand what political refugees are? There is no comparison to what Cubans have to go through...none bro and you wouldn’t make that comparison if you knew first hand

Its not merely walking, we're talking about traveling through the most violent region on earth as well as some very inhospitable climates. Plus to make it through to the US many become indebted to cartels and become their indentured servants. And of course unlike Cubans under wet foot dry foot they are liable to be deported and have to do the same thing all over again. I think you're underplaying the hardships of other Latin Americans.

Ok let me explain this to you as well. Education in Cuba was above average until 1985. Nowadays it’s shit and you can buy a passing grade from your teacher for a plastic fan or some cooking pans. Healthcare is.....well let me put it to you this way, my lady’s aunt was diagnosed with cancer...do you know how long it would take her to see a doctor? 3 months. She is a doctor herself and pulled some strings, we sent some “gifts” and she was seen sooner. The best doctors are in Venezuela in exchange for oil. You have to know someone who knows someone who knows someone in another province that can maybe find you some medication. God help if you have no connections or a family member in the US. Again here you are wrong on many many levels. The running joke in Cuba is if you have cold by the times you’re seen by a doctor it’s gone....best healthcare ever

I'm not comparing Cuban healthcare to healthcare in Norway, I know its shit compared to what I get in terms of quality. But in Brazil if you are poor and have cancer, you ain't seeing a doctor in 3 months or in 3 years. As far as education, pretty much only private schools are worth a damn which is partly why my parents came to the US since the public schools here are better and don't require you pay out the nose. Like I said, something is better than nothing and that's what Cubans have compared to other Latin Americans.

 

[Scerpi]

Ahhh bro did you just say it’s only a short 90 mile ride here? You do realize that at this point sharks in the Florida straights have a taste for Cubans right? I can’t believe you just wrote that

Cubans got a pass with wet foot dry foot when and if when they threw themselves into the ocean at night they were able to make it without being intercepted by the coast guard. That’s if they didn’t end up around Bermuda. I attempted to escape 17.....17 times and not once did I see the boat it’s not as simple as “just 90 miles” and like I keep telling you there’s no neighboring country to walk to..the scariest thing in the world is being in the middle of the ocean at night with only an idea on where to go. Seriously I’ll take the tear gas over that

Because the Cuban youth *in Cuba* are the ones being fucked over by the archaic system their grandparents taught and then got fucked over by themselves. I don’t know why you can’t believe Cuba is as bad as any other Latin American country you can name

Wow... He has no idea what he's talking about.

Is he trying to argue that Communism in Cuba wasn't really that bad for the average Cuban over the last 60 years? lol...

It's crazy to me how Cuba's infrastructure and vehicles were almost frozen in time for 50+ years. They did a great job of maintaining those 1950's American cars.

My wife is best friend's with Cuban family who came over in the 70's or 80's. The mom's accent is amazing and she looks great for 54 years old. Their hatred for Castro is dipping with venom.

Their daughter, who was born and raised here, is one of the of most beautiful girls I've ever seen.

 

[lifelessheap]

Lazy and stupid people want to drag down successful people and leach off of them. So the become commie scum.

 

[AlexDB9]

Its not merely walking, we're talking about traveling through the most violent region on earth as well as some very inhospitable climates. Plus to make it through to the US many become indebted to cartels and become their indentured servants. And of course unlike Cubans under wet foot dry foot they are liable to be deported and have to do the same thing all over again. I think you're underplaying the hardships of other Latin Americans.

I'm not comparing Cuban healthcare to healthcare in Norway, I know its shit compared to what I get in terms of quality. But in Brazil if you are poor and have cancer, you ain't seeing a doctor in 3 months or in 3 years. As far as education, pretty much only private schools are worth a damn which is partly why my parents came to the US since the public schools here are better and don't require you pay out the nose. Like I said, something is better than nothing and that's what Cubans have compared to other Latin Americans.

Coming here in a large group with other immigrants in a bus with some Mexicans handing them tacos and empanadas the whole way didn’t seem that bad, well until getting to the border that is....seems like that will be the trend now

You do know the coast guard exists right? Wet foot dry foot helped Cubans yes, but it was a complete gamble. If you’re caught by the coast guard you go back and you back to possible imprisonment in a political camp and labeled a traitor to your country (haha ridiculous). Do Mexicans and Central Americans have political camps for their citizens who escape? Oh that’s right Mexico themselves provide their immigrants with water, food, shit even a nice map...yeah I guess you can say I downplay their plight

Are Brazil’s best being shipped out for oil?

 

[Scerpi]

Coming here in a large group with other immigrants in a bus with some Mexicans handing them tacos and empanadas the whole way didn’t seem that bad, well until getting to the border that is....seems like that will be the trend now

You do know the coast guard exists right? Wet foot dry foot helped Cubans yes, but it was a complete gamble. If you’re caught by the coast guard you go back and you back to possible imprisonment in a political camp and labeled a traitor to your country (haha ridiculous). Do Mexicans and Central Americans have political camps for their citizens who escape? Oh that’s right Mexico themselves provide their immigrants with water, food, shit even a nice map...yeah I guess you can say I downplay their plight

Communist countries have almost always treated their citizens like prisoners. Having citizens mass emigrate due to poor living conditions and rationing necessities makes the Government look bad.

 

[HunterSdVa29]

I mean someone's gotta make stuff for practically zero wages

It's around b/c mad people in our society are not that intelligent, nor skilled, but seem to think they are

 

[Rod1]

I'm not comparing Cuban healthcare to healthcare in Norway, I know its shit compared to what I get in terms of quality. But in Brazil if you are poor and have cancer, you ain't seeing a doctor in 3 months or in 3 years. As far as education, pretty much only private schools are worth a damn which is partly why my parents came to the US since the public schools here are better and don't require you pay out the nose. Like I said, something is better than nothing and that's what Cubans have compared to other Latin Americans.

You aint seeing a doctor in Cuba if you are poor either.

 

[AlexDB9]

Communist countries have almost always treated their citizens like prisoners. Having citizens mass emigrate due to poor living conditions and rationing necessities makes the Government look bad.

That would def be the case for Cuba. You open that island up for business and there would be a large migrant crisis in Florida over night

 

[HunterSdVa29]

one thing to note is Communist countries either haven't industrialized fully, or did so much later in time likely due to colonialism

partially why they revolted in Communist ways, it was one way to force 'modernize' countries away from Agrarianism into modern manufacturing and resource extraction

Not exactly the Proletariat uniting IOW, which was theoretically already industrialized societies revolting to take control of capitol and means of production.

Nordic countries switching to Democratic Socialism post WWII is the closest we'll get to a successful 'communist' style regime

 

[The ScorpioN]

Not all Cubans agree with you, I have listened to Cubans who say they prefer Fidel's rule to Batista's. Not saying they are right, just saying that your family's perspective is not the only one on the matter.

Were those Cubans living in Cuba when you spoke to them?

 

[Islam Imamate]

Coming here in a large group with other immigrants in a bus with some Mexicans handing them tacos and empanadas the whole way didn’t seem that bad, well until getting to the border that is....seems like that will be the trend now

See, its easy to downplay their hardships when you only argue from anecdotal evidence. You know the struggles of Cubans and its good you air them but here you are downplaying the struggles of others because just like leftists who play apologist for Castro's regime you are alienated from their experience and motivated to downplay it for political points.

You do know the coast guard exists right? Wet foot dry foot helped Cubans yes, but it was a complete gamble. If you’re caught by the coast guard you go back and you back to possible imprisonment in a political camp and labeled a traitor to your country (haha ridiculous). Do Mexicans and Central Americans have political camps for their citizens who escape? Oh that’s right Mexico themselves provide their immigrants with water, food, shit even a nice map...yeah I guess you can say I downplay their plight

Are Brazil’s best being shipped out for oil?

Do Cubans have to pay out the nose to be smuggled in by cartels? Are they scrutinized as much for deportation?

Look honestly you only argue from anecdotal experience which is obviously going to favor your biases and at this point we're going around in circles. That's not all bad, I think its good for people like you to reminds us of the daily hardships of Cubans, something that doesn't come across through cold hard data and metrics. I think part of the weakness of communist regimes is that often the centralized governments are blind to these daily realities of life under their rule in favor of the big picture metrics(which are distorted in many cases for a variety of reasons I'd rather not get into).

I'll concede that leftists outside of Cuba downplay the day to day struggle of Cubans and play apologist for Fidel too much. Its perfectly legitimate to shit on those leftists. But my point is Latin America is in general a shithole unfortunately and I don't think communism was the key factor in Cuba. Cuba would've been different kind of shithole had it never had a communist revolution but the determination of the US to dominate and exploit it would've taken it down a different but also dark path that other Latin American states find themselves on(egregious inequality, entrenched landed oligarchy, violence, elections plagued by corruption etc).

But yes, Cuba is overrated by leftists. Even self admitted communist Slavoj Zizek criticizes Cuban communism as being pretty shit and mostly hyped up by nostalgic leftists as an alternative to the complete catastrophic disasters of other communist regimes like Maoist China and Stalinist Russia. Its fine to give the Devil his due but its also fair for you to point out most leftists would not want to live in Cuba as opposed to one of the developed market economies of the world. Its less shit than other communist countries and many Latin American countries but its no alternative to liberal democratic capitalism.

I've said what I want to say on the issue so have the last word and have a nice day.

 

[LEGS MAHONEY]

. Like I said, something is better than nothing and that's what Cubans have compared to other Latin Americans.

This is better than nothing?

No make shift shanty hospitals festering with disease and lacking supplies are the reality of what hospitals are like for the common man in the country.