Why is Cain Velasquez ranked above Demetrious Johnson in P4P rankings?

[Steve08]

I think Cain could take DJ.

I don't think it would exactly be a squash match, but DJ moves far better than anyone Cain has faced throughout this career. It is unlikely that he would be able to find training partners to simulate it accurately, and in wrestling, moving away from TD attempts is so effective as defense that wrestlers who do it excessively will actually have points deducted for timidity or something like that.

Cain won't ever stop though, he is like a bull.

It would be a good fight at least.

I was just specifically pointing out the Flyweight division because before the WBW came to the UFC, the Flyweight division got shit on the most by posters around here (and still does, to an extent).

Fair enough. Yeah I've never seen more irrational, unfounded hate for a weight division than the flyweights get. Not that it happens every day and everywhere, but some of the shit I've read is like...... what?

 

[Steve08]

Dodson is the shit and the most athletic fighter in MMA imo.

You're probably right. It is pretty crazy that Shawn Jordan is like 112kg and can do a legit backflip though.

Dodson has some pretty vicious counters, love that guy. Dillashaw ran right into em though his striking is nowhere near that wild these days.

 

[HaterSlayer]

You dont understand p4p. No one has an advantage. If MM was 6'1 240lbs with the same skillset that he has at 125lb, would he beat cain? No

Hell yeah, he'd blow right through Cain. He's a fantastic wrestler, fast has hell, has a good chin, and has great striking.

 

[yookfarb]

You clearly haven't actually watched any of his fights lol.Name one good HW prospect who has been signed in the past 6 months and might have a chance of sniffing the top 10, besides Jared Rosholt.

And you're right, speed doesn't equal skill, but skill equals skill, and your average HW can't even use the skills he has past the first round.

I've watched his rematch with DJ and his UFC debut.

Anyways, I'm not implying HW is the epitome of technical perfection nor am I implying that 125 is dogshit.

I do think that this line of thinking that smaller is better is asinine. There aren't any kickboxing champions, olympic wrestlers, or sub grappling legends who are competing at 125, it's a shallow division.

Depth and talent in MMA is a bell curve, the divisions aren't that good at the extremes but are great in the middle. People who compete know this. Hence why there are over 70 fighters at WW but only 31 at flyweight and 36 at HW.

and cardio =/= skill

 

[Jopo]

Why are you asking such question when Ronda is #10. P4P is a joke. It's a fap list of old pervert Dana White.

For some reason the metaphor works pretty well. They are always simply people he likes.

 

[Calboy]

I've watched his rematch with DJ and his UFC debut.

Anyways, I'm not implying HW is the epitome of technical perfection nor am I implying that 125 is dogshit.

I do think that this line of thinking that smaller is better is asinine. There aren't any kickboxing champions, olympic wrestlers, or sub grappling legends who are competing at 125, it's a shallow division.

Depth and talent in MMA is a bell curve, the divisions aren't that good at the extremes but are great in the middle. People who compete know this. Hence why there are over 70 fighters at WW but only 31 at flyweight and 36 at HW.

and cardio =/= skill

actually to be fair to the little guys this is not true

 

[Steve08]

I've watched his rematch with DJ and his UFC debut.

That's not exactly an embarrassing kayo in that .gif. Benavidez did get himself trapped in the corner, but from there, he really didn't have anywhere to go. When your back is to the fence, you certainly can't back up, and if he circled left it would have brought him directly into MM's right hook, and if he circled right then he may have eaten MM's left high kick. Just a really sticky situation overall.

I do think that this line of thinking that smaller is better is asinine. There aren't any kickboxing champions, olympic wrestlers, or sub grappling legends who are competing at 125, it's a shallow division.

But there are probably more than a few competing around 140-170, no? Which is more my point, overall: lighter weight competitors are generally more skilled and athletic. We see this in sports like kickboxing and jiujitsu, even soccer. The K-1 HWGPs did have some amazingly dramatic moments to be sure, but can you honestly tell me you've ever seen more frenetic, technical stand-up fighting than in the old K-1 MAX GPs, which were held at 154lbs?

Depth and talent in MMA is a bell curve, the divisions aren't that good at the extremes but are great in the middle. People who compete know this. Hence why there are over 70 fighters at WW but only 31 at flyweight and 36 at HW.

I think that has more to do with the fact that 145-170 is where the average guy typically fits in size-wise than anything else. The appearance of a seemingly higher level of skill is fueled by the greater amount of fighters who are that size.

and cardio =/= skill

Well, no, but you certainly cannot use the full extent of your skills when you are gassed.

 

[Nova Q]

Renan Barao at number 3 is a joke. He has defeated one elite p4p level competitor. Who has he beat aside from Faber? Anyone worth remembering? Nope. The guy fights in what is arguably the weakest division in the UFC.

Meanwhile Hendricks has beat several p4p quality opponents -- Condit, Fitch, Kampmann, Lawler, and yes, GSP. So why is he so far down the list?

Like Barao, Weidman only really has defeated one elite p4p level competitor, but a win over Anderson is better than a win over Faber, so why is Weidman ranked lower than Barao?

Same could be said with Pettis. A win over Benson is better than a win over Faber. Pettis should be above Barao.

Barao is the most overrated fighter in the UFC. There is a reason why nobody cares about him. He fights nobodies except for Faber. To put him in the top 3 is pathetic.

 

[yookfarb]

That's not exactly an embarrassing kayo in that .gif. Benavidez did get himself trapped in the corner, but from there, he really didn't have anywhere to go. When your back is to the fence, you certainly can't back up, and if he circled left it would have brought him directly into MM's right hook, and if he circled right then he may have eaten MM's left high kick. Just a really sticky situation overall.But there are probably more than a few competing around 140-170, no? Which is more my point, overall: lighter weight competitors are generally more skilled and athletic. We see this in sports like kickboxing and jiujitsu, even soccer. The K-1 HWGPs did have some amazingly dramatic moments to be sure, but can you honestly tell me you've ever seen more frenetic, technical stand-up fighting than in the old K-1 MAX GPs, which were held at 154lbs?I think that has more to do with the fact that 145-170 is where the average guy typically fits in size-wise than anything else. The appearance of a seemingly higher level of skill is fueled by the greater amount of fighters who are that size.Well, no, but you certainly cannot use the full extent of your skills when you are gassed.

You're telling me that lighter weight classes are more skilled, but you use the 140-170 range as evidence to back this up.

140-170 isn't 'smaller', it's approximately average(perhaps a little bit on the smaller side).

Anyways, there are exceptions to my bell curve line of thinking, I just think more of the outliers exist at HW than at 125 as of right now when it comes to those elite top 10 fighters.

 

[Horse Meat]

Meanwhile Hendricks has beat several p4p quality opponents -- Condit, Fitch, Kampmann, Lawler, and yes, GSP. So why is he so far down the list?

Barao is the most overrated fighter in the UFC. There is a reason why nobody cares about him. He fights nobodies except for Faber. To put him in the top 3 is pathetic.

Because Hendricks has lost to Rick Story, and should have lost to Koscheck and Mike Pierce. He's the most underwhelming champion on the roster by far. Barao dismantles every single person they put in front of him. Relative to his weight he is far and away the best fighter on the planet at 135. The same can not be said about Hendricks at 170.

And no, actually, he did not beat GSP. Unless you score by Pride rules and damage, but then that would mean that Lawler beat Hendricks for the same reason.

Overall I give your post a solid:

retarded/10

 

[infamouz ice]

man if only muggsy bogues was a foot taller he could have been the best player in the NBA!!

just because you're the best ball player on a 7ft rim, please do not compare yourself to the guys that are dunking and playing on the regulation court...

who cares about these fake scenarios... at the end of the day the baddest guys on the planet are the champs out HW,LHW divisions

 

[TX Fighter]

Cain would beat two johnsons

 

[BaraoBanks]

P4P rankings have become redundant.

 

[wilddeuces]

Because he's heavier ;-)

 

[cuban23]

Cain's striking is shit. He lunges in head first all the time, has no counter punching ability at all. The only success he has is because of the threat of takedowns.

Johnson is way more well rounded and has gotten a lot better throughout his UFC career in every area.

Some would say he's successful because of the threat of the takedown, but he actually moves pretty well in the octagon and sets his punches up.

He should be higher on the P4P list.

 

[Max Power]

Why the FUCK are these two ahead of Ronda?!??!

 

[Nova Q]

Because Hendricks has lost to Rick Story, and should have lost to Koscheck and Mike Pierce. He's the most underwhelming champion on the roster by far. Barao dismantles every single person they put in front of him. Relative to his weight he is far and away the best fighter on the planet at 135. The same can not be said about Hendricks at 170.

And no, actually, he did not beat GSP. Unless you score by Pride rules and damage, but then that would mean that Lawler beat Hendricks for the same reason.

Overall I give your post a solid:

retarded/10

No dumbass. Hendricks not only did more damage, but won more rounds against GSP. Pretty much 90% of all fighters and media scored it 3 rounds for Hendricks. Dana White and Joe Rogan gave the fight to Hendricks. All rational fans (non GSP fanboys) also gave Johny 3 rounds. Even fellow Canadian Ariel Helwani had Johny winning. Go do some research and count how many credible people had the fight for GSP. Not many. Hendricks won 48-47 on the overwhelming majority of score cards. That's why the fight was considered a robbery stupid. Now go take GSP's dick out of your mouth.

Barao dismantles every single person they put in front of him? Like who? Fuckin Eddie Wineland and Scott Jorgensen? Lmfao. Yea, real impressive.

 

[HIMBOB]

Esp when Cain has struggled most against opponents smaller than him, ie JDS and Kongo.

Its really strange how people think Cain is small but JDS isn't when Cain is bigger than JDS.

 

[Blayt7hh]

Is there a single thread about p4p rankings that you haven't made this exact post on the first page of?

It's like your Emjay senses tingle when someone makes a p4p thread.

Not bashing, I'm impressed.

Lol that shit is nothing, TheRassler has ben first in every GSP/wrestler related thread on the first page bitching for 4 years straight

 

[HIMBOB]

No dumbass. Hendricks not only did more damage, but won more rounds against GSP. Pretty much 90% of all fighters and media scored it 3 rounds for Hendricks. Dana White and Joe Rogan gave the fight to Hendricks. All rational fans (non GSP fanboys) also gave Johny 3 rounds. Even fellow Canadian Ariel Helwani had Johny winning. Go do some research and count how many credible people had the fight for GSP. Not many. Hendricks won 48-47 on the overwhelming majority of score cards. That's why the fight was considered a robbery stupid. Now go take GSP's dick out of your mouth.

Barao dismantles every single person they put in front of him? Like who? Fuckin Eddie Wineland and Scott Jorgensen? Lmfao. Yea, real impressive.

Two undisputable victories over Faber(no 15 p4p) should count for something.

When Barao clearly beat Faber twice and the second time finished him in the first round yet Faber remains in the top 15 p4p is says something.