Why is boxing technique so bad in mma

When you expect a takedown, you try to put your hands down to get underhooks and stop the TD. Therefore your hands arent covering your face when your opponent throws an overhand instead.

Conor getting dropped by khabib is an example of this
 
Junior is supposedly an elite boxer but had his left hand low when he tried to uppercut making blade catch him with the right.

I see this sloppiness all the time causing people to get ktfo in the ufc.

How hard is it to keep to focus on the basics?
Because guys who play MMA are inferior athletes.
 
level of experience is important, as you say. seems like a lot of MMA fighters don't start training until late teens or in their 20s, whereas pro boxers might have started at age 10 or younger. takes a lot of time to ingrain habits

AND DEFENSIVE HABITS. Most guys just do pads and combinations but not the real fundamentals in footwork and defense and takes time. Like you said, most amateurs start during childhood up to the amateur circuit, so that's enough time to get the defense right.
 
There's a boatload of dummies in this thread who don't understand the importance of boxing in mma. Of course you're only taking the elements that can be applied to MMA.....

<36>
 
Junior is supposedly an elite boxer but had his left hand low when he tried to uppercut making blade catch him with the right.

I see this sloppiness all the time causing people to get ktfo in the ufc.

How hard is it to keep to focus on the basics?
Seems like u never been in a real fight? ALOT differeent when u dont have 14oz gloves on. Do u think junior left hand on his chin would have helped?? LOL
 
There's a boatload of dummies in this thread who don't understand the importance of boxing in mma. Of course you're only taking the elements that can be applied to MMA.....

<36>
Sounds like u have no idea what ur talling about. Stipe got golden gloves and would likely beat cormier up w boxing gloves straight boxing.
 
Sounds like u have no idea what ur talling about. Stipe got golden gloves and would likely beat cormier up w boxing gloves straight boxing.
Sounds like you have reading comprehension skills brah. I'm a boxing enthusiast. My post was promoting the use of boxing in MMA.....
 
Sounds like you have reading comprehension skills brah. I'm a boxing enthusiast. My post was promoting the use of boxing in MMA.....
To an extent.. Couture beat james tony in like 1 minute. Do u think couture beats tony in boxing?
 
To an extent.. Couture beat james tony in like 1 minute. Do u think couture beats tony in boxing?
Dude I don't even know what you're asking.....

Here's what I'm saying.....

Boxing is a fundamental art to all MMA fighters arsenal. Not all of boxing though, as there are techniques that simply do not translate to MMA.

James Toney KO's Randy Couture in a boxing match in probably equal or less time that Randy choked him out in MMA.

I'm not even sure what we're talking about anymore. We agree, and yet you still don't get it......
 
because its not boxing?? there are a heap of other areas fighters to need focus on - should go without saying really. all a boxer for focus on are hands, cardio etc
 
Because MMA is not boxing. The question makes as much as sense as "why is 100 meter sprinting technique so bad in soccer?"
 
But we have seen world-class strikers transition to MMA and suck dick too.

Joe Schilling was advertised as a world-class muay thai / kickboxer. Now maybe that's Rogan jerking him off, but to my knowledge - correct me if I'm wrong - he was an elite level muay/kickboxer. He proceeded to go 4-6 as an MMA fighter in his career to this point.

James Toney is an example I won't use but was a world-class boxer at a point, was washed and a fat bum and didn't know any grappling/wrestling whatsoever.

Semmy Schilt from the Pride days beat a ton of cans, but pretty much sucked or was just ....okay at best. He was a world-class kickboxer and a giant.

Holly Holm was 33-2 as a women's boxer, obviously world-class right? she was a champion at welterweight and 33-2. Well she also has been out-struck by girls like Nunes and Cyborg who aren't world-class striking pedigree fighters. And her striking hasn't been that great or anything in MMA...where on paper it should be right?

Schilling is literally the Artem Lobov of MT/kickboxing, if he were any lower on the tier list he'd fall off the bottom. He only gets hyped because he's American and Glory & Bellator use him to promote their US cards. Toney & Schilt I won't get into since I never watched or followed their careers.

Holly is an interesting case. She's a world champion boxer but let's just say her record is a bit padded. A couple of her opponents in title fights were something like 2-8, no, that's not a typo, 2-8 in their last 10 fights before fighting Holly. Then there's the fact that she wins her fights with pure athleticism rather than good boxing technique, watch any of her fights in boxing and it's not pretty, there's many women in MMA with better boxing technique than Holly.

As for actual world class strikers in MMA, I don't think they've done bad at all. Hunt and Overeem have both made it all the way to a UFC title fight and Overeem has won titles in other MMA organizations. Adesanya was very good but maybe not quite on the elite level in kickboxing and he's the MW champ in the UFC. On the women's side, Joanna was a long time champ and still a top contender, Valentina is a dominant champ in her division, and Germaine de Randamie was a former champ and recently fought for the title again.
 
Schilling is literally the Artem Lobov of MT/kickboxing, if he were any lower on the tier list he'd fall off the bottom. He only gets hyped because he's American and Glory & Bellator use him to promote their US cards. Toney & Schilt I won't get into since I never watched or followed their careers.

Holly is an interesting case. She's a world champion boxer but let's just say her record is a bit padded. A couple of her opponents in title fights were something like 2-8, no, that's not a typo, 2-8 in their last 10 fights before fighting Holly. Then there's the fact that she wins her fights with pure athleticism rather than good boxing technique, watch any of her fights in boxing and it's not pretty, there's many women in MMA with better boxing technique than Holly.

As for actual world class strikers in MMA, I don't think they've done bad at all. Hunt and Overeem have both made it all the way to a UFC title fight and Overeem has won titles in other MMA organizations. Adesanya was very good but maybe not quite on the elite level in kickboxing and he's the MW champ in the UFC. On the women's side, Joanna was a long time champ and still a top contender, Valentina is a dominant champ in her division, and Germaine de Randamie was a former champ and recently fought for the title again.

Fair enough, like I said I wasn't sure if Schilling was legit good at kickboxing or it was a Joe Rogan hype train. Apparently it was the latter, and it makes sense considering he was outstruck in MMA and then barely beat the same asian guy in kickboxing if I remember correctly.

Makes sense for Holly. I think her boxing is still likely top tier for women's MMA, certainly, but sure maybe Nunes / Namajunas / Da Randamie have better striking fundamentals, I can see that. Also I think Holly is on some form of test/steroids for sure, just saying. Don't see too many 36-38 year old women walking around with delt striations, 6 pack abs, shredded lean, with a big neck and traps. Suspect city imo, she's likely using. Goes hand in hand with her athleticism reliance.

And for sure on the rest, but they all have adapted their striking to MMA + also learned adequate or better wrestling/BJJ/grappling. But fair enough they all did succeed. Pure boxers though? for whatever reason...likely money and unwillingness to transition and learn grappling...we don't see a lot of those.
 
Dude I don't even know what you're asking.....

Here's what I'm saying.....

Boxing is a fundamental art to all MMA fighters arsenal. Not all of boxing though, as there are techniques that simply do not translate to MMA.

James Toney KO's Randy Couture in a boxing match in probably equal or less time that Randy choked him out in MMA.

I'm not even sure what we're talking about anymore. We agree, and yet you still don't get it......

Yes of course Boxing is one of the best forms of martial arts applied to MMA. So if you included me in the group of "idiots who don't know what they are talking about" then you are wrong, just saying...not sure who you were talking about prior.

Either way...yes like we've both said not all of it translates. Obviously the mechanics of punching, footwork, head movement, slipping punches, and bobbing/weaving are all crucial to MMA. It's just that a lot of boxing isn't ideal or doesn't work because of obvious reasons.

You can afford to stand in the pocket and trade in boxing because you can't be taken down. You can jab at distance free reign with no fear of being kicked in anyway. You can't be clinched for more than a few seconds in boxing, there's a ring not a cage, the gloves are bigger and give a significant defensive advantage...entire styles and blocking that would not work in MMA.

We both agree on all of this pretty much I assume. As for the other guy...yeah you both clearly agree but he isn't understanding.
 
Makes sense for Holly. I think her boxing is still likely top tier for women's MMA, certainly, but sure maybe Nunes / Namajunas / Da Randamie have better striking fundamentals, I can see that. Also I think Holly is on some form of test/steroids for sure, just saying. Don't see too many 36-38 year old women walking around with delt striations, 6 pack abs, shredded lean, with a big neck and traps. Suspect city imo, she's likely using. Goes hand in hand with her athleticism reliance.

IMO Holly's boxing only works because of her size & athleticism, and even then it's not that good. Consider that Raquel Pennington, a smaller fighter with soccer mom athleticism actually out-boxed her in their last fight and Holly had to resort to clinching to win. Taking fundamentals, technique, footwork, and defensive skills into consideration and I'd run out of fingers well before I finish listing better boxers than Holly. You have Rose, de Randamie, Nunes, Joanna, both Shevchenko sisters, Grasso, Pennington, Ansaroff, Aldana, Zhang, Cyborg, and Aldrich just off the top of my head, and half of them gave Holly a good face-punching in their fights.

Going back to the big picture, it's more like "why is everything other than wrestling and BJJ so shit in MMA?" And it goes back to what another person mentioned earlier; opportunities. MMA is where all the good wrestlers and grapplers go once they're done with their sport, but not just the athletes, some of the coaches who trained those guys are going into MMA as well. So not only do you have a high level competitors, the coaches are there as well in the MMA gyms and teaching everything they know to the rest of the fighters in the gyms. Pretty much every half-decent MMA gym will have a good wrestling and/or BJJ coach, so unless a fighter's stuck in some podunk town he'll get good training in that part of his game. Which is why the majority of UFC fighters have decent wrestling and/or grappling.

Boxing on the other hand, not many fighters have access to a legit boxing coach. GSP got to train with Freddie Roach and the Diaz brothers work with Andre Ward, other than that there's not much crossover. MMA gyms have started hiring boxing trainers but it's still in the early stages and some of those trainers are a bit quacky to put it nicely. Same thing with kickboxing and Muay Thai, the countries which produce good fighters in those sports are barely represented in MMA and the countries which have lots of MMA fighters don't have good kickboxing and Muay Thai.
 
@aerius Also I think that a wrestling / grappling base is simply superior to a boxing / striking base.

Unless you just have nuclear power in your hands / feet AND you are at HW specifically, you aren't going to have success generally.

Examples being obvious: Cro Cop of the past, Ngannou of the present.

Two guys who have rudimentary wrestling/grappling compared to the average MMA fighter or even HW really, yet had success due to their striking / pure power.

So yeah there's not an avenue to money for wrestlers/grapplers usually after they become really good and their collegiate or I guess training careers are over, but it's also the ideal base for MMA imo.

You can be an elite wrestler/grappler and learn striking on the fly and have success, plenty of guys have done it. Who has been an elite striker and learned wrestling/grappling on the fly and had success?

It's happened probably, but guys like Overeem developed it over time and put the work in. There's tons of work to be put in either way, but I would definitely argue that you can get away with shitty striking more easily than shitty wrestling. And it's obvious that having a good blend of both adapted to MMA makes you great, i.e. Jon Jones, GSP, ~Silva, ~DC, Mighty Mouse, etc. etc. etc.

Khabib for example is a guy who had very shitty striking for awhile but was undefeated due to his wrestling/grappling. Conor is the foil to that arguably, but it's also arguable he avoided wrestlers up until Mendes and was basically exposed and taken down easily and could have lost that fight if Mendes went for control rather than a finish. Both have improved since their early UFC runs though, in respective areas.
 
Junior is supposedly an elite boxer but had his left hand low when he tried to uppercut making blade catch him with the right.

I see this sloppiness all the time causing people to get ktfo in the ufc.

How hard is it to keep to focus on the basics?

Because MMA isn't boxing. And vice versa.
 
Because good boxing is extremely nuanced compared to other arts and is very difficult to understand, more difficult to teach, and most difficult to do.

It takes a lot more careful polishing than other arts but at the same time that's what makes it so incredibly effective (and efficient). It looks straight forward, yet it's anything but. The good effective components of boxing are unique and completely invisible to most people including most fighters and most coaches, even on replay, even in slow motion.
 
Junior was crushed by Francis not long ago he needed rest wtf ufc thinking

Ngannou beg to fight and he still has 2 month to next fight and he took no damage vs junior

Omg who tf the match maker Francis should have fought by now I don’t give a fuck if rematch bohan mihajlocic
 
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