1. The official Sherdog Store is back! Check it out! » Discuss it here! »

Why I believe training in the GI is superior

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Lukthree, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. Lukthree White Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    When it comes to grappling in mma or self defense there is always the debate whether training in the gi produces better grapplers than no-gi does, and the arguement always goes "you should train for how you will fight", in other words train no-gi because in mma or the street you wont have grips.

    I think this argument is null when the physical benefit of training with grips is considered.

    Keep in mind I am only speaking from personal experience and this is just my opinion, so feel free to voice yours as well. My opinion is that training in the gi with grips the majority of the time will make you a better grappler than if you training mostly no-gi because of the way it develops your grip strength.

    I notice a trend among my training partners, that the ones who are dedicated to gi are able to manhandle the guys who are at the same skill level technically and physically.

    I also commonly hear that Roger Gracies hands are like iron vices, which I have no reason to doubt.

    The truth is, that training while engaging your forearm and grip muscles 100% or the time will make your wrist-control nasty in no-gi which is so important when you are sweaty. Having dominating wrist control opens up so many techniques that would otherwise be low-percentage

    Another point i would like to make is how training with a gi makes your game more technical. Imagine this scenario, end of class and you want to work a new technique into your game, will it be easy to be technical while you are sweaty in the gi, or would you rather have a roll where you spend the entire time with your opponent muscling and slipping out of every position? Which setting will you learn more?

    I would like to hear your opinions

    What follows is a type of wrist control I like to use gi and no-gi, try it out and see if it works for you!



    TWISTING WRIST CONTROL

    *From top-Side control or top-Half guard

    1. pin your opponents far hand to the mat palm-down, like you would be attempting a kimura

    2. use your close hand to trap their hand while doing this. Your palm on the back of their hand, 4 fingers grip over the outside edge of their hand while your thumb rests naturally around their wrist, like you are holding the flat end of an oar. You are grabbing the blade of his hand so you can get the maximum leverage to rotate it. you can practice this grip on your own hand.

    3. Now when you have the proper grip, you have to drive his hand out away from his body so his arm is fully extended. once you do this, you can use your grip on the blade of his hand to rotate his wrist like you are revving a motorcycle. When you rotate it like this while his arm is fully extended it locks at a certain point, this is when you get to the limit of the maximum rang-of-motion of their shoulder, wrist, and elbow combined. By twisting the wrist this way you are able to fully lock your opponents arm. The twisting of their arm should not hurt them, but it should be utterly dominating, even if they are stronger than you are. One limitation however is that if you are fighting a monster that can lift most of your bodyweight with a single arm then they will be able to escape.

    4. Once you have this wrist control you really have to sit a lot of your weight on it to control it. Since it is isolated from your opponents body it is hard for them to get it back, but they will fight, so make sure you are stiff-arming their arm to pin it, this way you are using leverage not muscle.

    5. Keep your base LOW and sit in half guard so you are facing their feet but remembering to keep most of your weight pinning that arm with your stiff-arm. Now that their arm is pinned you can be REALLY dominating, smashing for the pass etc.

    6. Another option is to walk their hand way up past their head, while basically sitting on their head while still in half-guard, and then slide your non-occupied hand underneath his isloated elbow and overtop your bicep for a straight arm-bar. If your wrist control is tight, this is can be a very-high percentage move unlike other straight armbars where your opponent can rotate his wrist to escape.

    The specific grip on the blade of the wrist is very important, as well as understanding the concept of "locking" their entire arm by extending their arm fully and rotating the wrist to near-submission.

    When you understand these important concept they can be applied everywhere. I have used this wrist control to escape from back mount when nothing else was working. Just apply it wherever you can grip their wrist and twist it to the max.
     
  2. fourfif** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    0
    :eek:





































































    lol....
     
  3. GJJNY Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,410
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Golden State of Mind
    Was there a point to this other than to hear (see) yourself talk (type)?
     
  4. Anac0nda White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    26
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread should be stickied and the TS should be a moderator.
     
  5. 3dsmax Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2009
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    MMA should be in a gi :) (I seriously think it would make things so much more fun)
     
  6. Teedoh74 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,374
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Huntington Beach
    And don't forget to lock it as well.
     
  7. Qtip inspector Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    0
  8. silvasurfer5253 Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2010
    Messages:
    2,148
    Likes Received:
    3
    Those who train with a gi, get smoother technique. Self defense generally occurs with regular clothes, rather than board shorts and rash guard. I'm from WI where it's colder than shit 7 months a year, and we wear big coats.l I always figured training gi was the best simulation, in this environment, for self defense
     
  9. Drew Foster Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2008
    Messages:
    11,759
    Likes Received:
    0
    I LOLed as soon as I saw the smiley
     
  10. dahakkuh Green Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,260
    Likes Received:
    0
    Funny, i talked exactly about this topic last day in Training.

    I am used to train No-Gi and started in a new Gym BJJ with Gi.

    One argument which you can add, is the much more space you have in No-Gi. When you trained with Gi you are used to benefit on small space, because the Gi is very thick. When the space of the Gi disappear,
     
  11. Mumrik Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Messages:
    10,767
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Denmark
    Grip strength matters less in nogi. If you get dependent on that stuff you'll wear out your out your forearms. Nogi is a game of hooks.

    There must be better arguments for gi training that that.

    TS is as much arguing against his own point by pointing out all the things that he can't rely on when the gi is taken off.
     
  12. winman White Belt

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    141
    Likes Received:
    0
    gi fighting only leads to being less tight

    fighting with gi makes you have ot think more while you fight and your reaction, gripes and mind are always thinking which can only help you become a better fighter
     
  13. GJJNY Purple Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2002
    Messages:
    2,410
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Golden State of Mind
    r u an esl stoodent?
     
  14. joe90210 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2009
    Messages:
    893
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't read this thread but gi training is superior.
     
  15. Normot Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Messages:
    3,643
    Likes Received:
    1,521
    Won't you feel like a dick if he is one?
     
  16. Grappler111 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2008
    Messages:
    840
    Likes Received:
    33
    uhauhauahuahuahuah
     
  17. Lutador011 Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    784
    Likes Received:
    0
    GI FTW

    Flame war in 3...2...1...
     
  18. HomerPlata Purple Belt

    Joined:
    May 12, 2010
    Messages:
    1,649
    Likes Received:
    0
    Slightly off topic, but something that annoys me... Let's say, for example, that training in a gi is superior and, for argument's sake, this has been universally accepted. The thing that annoys me is that even the lowliest gi grappler will assume he is superior to any no-gi grappler, just because they practise the "better" way.

    For a similar example, I know average grapplers who now think they can beat all boxers, based on the "evidence" of the Couture-Toney fight (seemingly ignoring the fact that Randy is in the
     
  19. Shemhazai Black Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,153
    Likes Received:
    0
    The 'twisting' wrist control is something a friend of mine (very good Greco wrestler) taught me, primarily to open the elbow for arm drags. He stressed controlling the wrist from underneath, though, as it's a stronger grip, and gives you more ROM for the twist.
     
  20. td82394 Brown Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2010
    Messages:
    3,664
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Nowhere
    Well, I personally found that my game got better in no-gi as opposed to gi, but then, I didn't roll in the gi class, so idk. I think if you're trying to get good at MMA jiu-jitsu, you should have punches and elbows just so you can learn defense. No one wants to look like Big Nog by the time it's all over.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.