Why hasn't Shaolin Monk training been embraced by MMA fighters? (VIDEO)

[BillytheFish]

I dont have a clue who you are or what your background is or if there is any military record at all LoL you could be trolling how would I know, what on a internet post hahaha.

However from past teachers I have met many in military do cover many TMA's not just one.

Many have extensive training on weaponry, tactics, management, conditioning, sensitivity the list goes on covering a wide area of training and operational commanding positions very extensive training over many years not including basic training.

I have read some BIO's but not all is disclosed of course but good reads none the less and interesting careers not for me though, I always wanted to be in the USAF as a combat pilot on F-16s or F-18s life took another path married two kids and now I act like Bruce Lee in my home studio LOL

So whats your point you thought you were going to deter my opinion or at least my experiences and understanding of TMA's LoL you wish hahaha

Not even electric shocks could drive that out <Lmaoo>

You're right all commando units and special forces are expert at hand to hand combat techniques...think you've been watching too many movies there princess.

 

[FighterTwister]

You're right all commando units and special forces are expert at hand to hand combat techniques...think you've been watching too many movies there princess.

<Lmaoo>LoL............ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...ine-corps-style-hand-to-hand-combat-training/

A break down....

The levels of training will be broken down into four cohorts, according to Kinetic Fighting.

• Level 1: Mandatory training across the Army that equips individuals to survive a physical encounter and retain their weapon.
• Level 2: Discretionary training for any individual, equipping select personnel or trades to apply lethal and non-lethal techniques.
  
• Level 3: Mandatory training for infantry, teaching them to apply lethal and non-lethal techniques.
  
• Level 4: Mandatory training for special operators, teaching them to apply lethal and non-lethal techniques as part of a Special Forces team.

Anything else Billythefish? I'll Google that for you if you like

 

[BillytheFish]

<Lmaoo>LoL............ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...ine-corps-style-hand-to-hand-combat-training/

A break down....

The levels of training will be broken down into four cohorts, according to Kinetic Fighting.

• Level 1: Mandatory training across the Army that equips individuals to survive a physical encounter and retain their weapon.
• Level 2: Discretionary training for any individual, equipping select personnel or trades to apply lethal and non-lethal techniques.
  
• Level 3: Mandatory training for infantry, teaching them to apply lethal and non-lethal techniques.
  
• Level 4: Mandatory training for special operators, teaching them to apply lethal and non-lethal techniques as part of a Special Forces team.

Anything else Billythefish? I Google that for you if you like

And you think military programs not only 'come close' but far surpass professional fighter gyms lol? you can tell you have zero clue about the military and any programs within. youre an idiot.

 

[FighterTwister]

And you think military programs not only 'come close' but far surpass professional fighter gyms lol? you can tell you have zero clue about the military and any programs within. youre an idiot.

Yes i am an idiot but what does that make you LoL

Carry on you guys ruined the thread MMA is a sport, fact, get over it!

 

[BillytheFish]

Yes i am an idiot but what does that make you LoL

Carry on you guys ruined the thread MMA is a sport, fact, get over it!

the person who has underwent the training you are claiming surpasses mma methods??

 

[ocean size]

so its all make believe

Well I am glad you are coming around!

As for you @ocean size Consider each and every word in the thread title and embrace your inner self and face it with honesty!

Ah the thread title! what we came to this thread to discuss!
"Why hasn't Shaolin Monk training been embraced by MMA fighters?"

Well, I have two hypotheses:

1. Because it is show-fighting with no sparring, suboptimal training techniques, and little to teach to MMA fighters except how to ram your head into things at moderate speed since 'toughening the skull' is important and totally wont cause brain injury; or
2. Because it is 'too deadly'

Now this one is really a toss up! One guy in the thread has the 'facts' about 2. but he won't share. But what I've learned from the thread from him is sparring is 'nonsense' that isn't required to master TMA. Real TMAists get deadly by doing choreographed demos on patsy opponents. Deadly TMA is so different from MMA, because sometimes in training after they pretend to beat the demo guy up with flashy but MMA legal moves, they also pretend to snap his neck or drop an elbow on him.

The 'facts' must be super secret because whenever you ask the guy that has them, he changes the subject or posts a random choreographed demo video.

So if you don't want to talk specifics about why the Monk kills the MMA fighter when there are no rules, maybe you can discuss how can TMA training can be effective without nonlethal sparing?

 

[FighterTwister]

the person who has underwent the training you are claiming surpasses mma methods??

Good for you dood, seriously good for you but why are you telling me? I don't care neither do I pay your sponsorship you are just polarizing the thread.

You are not even contributing to the thread tilted..............

Why hasn't Shaolin Monk training been embraced by MMA fighters? (VIDEO)

Care to offer something constructive rather than wasted text it would be better to interact with you that way rather than this childish toss.

 

[BillytheFish]

Good for you dood, seriously good for you but why are you telling me? I don't care neither do I pay your sponsorship you are just polarizing the thread.

You are not even contributing to the thread tilted..............

Why hasn't Shaolin Monk training been embraced by MMA fighters? (VIDEO)

Care to offer something constructive rather than wasted text it would be better to interact with you that way rather than this childish toss.

I was responding to your other posts where you included footage of serving soldiers and debunked your shit thoughts which you proclaimed to be fact. Fucking tool.

 

[FighterTwister]

Well I am glad you are coming around!


Ah the thread title! what we came to this thread to discuss!
"Why hasn't Shaolin Monk training been embraced by MMA fighters?"

Well, I have two hypotheses:

1. Because it is show-fighting with no sparring, suboptimal training techniques, and little to teach to MMA fighters except how to ram your head into things at moderate speed since 'toughening the skull' is important and totally wont cause brain injury; or
2. Because it is 'too deadly'

Now this one is really a toss up! One guy in the thread has the 'facts' about 2. but he won't share. But what I've learned from the thread from him is sparring is 'nonsense' that isn't required to master TMA. Real TMAists get deadly by doing choreographed demos on patsy opponents. Deadly TMA is so different from MMA, because sometimes in training after they pretend to beat the demo guy up with flashy but MMA legal moves, they also pretend to snap his neck or drop an elbow on him.

The 'facts' must be super secret because whenever you ask the guy that has them, he changes the subject or posts a random choreographed demo video.

So if you don't want to talk specifics about why the Monk kills the MMA fighter when there are no rules, maybe you can discuss how can TMA training can be effective without nonlethal sparing?

You really don't get it do you?

I don't share your opinion, damn let it go, the least you could do is "Agree to Disagree" and leave it at that!

You replied again to a post I made a moment ago to show you some respect that I understand yours and now you insist on the view that I have somewhat changed my view LoL

I don't have anything more to say on this thread, but damn, you guys have to let other people have their own views and opinions........... its called........ "Mutual respect"!

Learn about boundaries and what it means to say................... https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=agree+to+disagree+meaning

 

[ocean size]

You really don't get it do you?

I don't share your opinion, damn let it go

You post so much without just discussing the thread title you keep telling me to discuss then complain when I discuss it I just want to know how its possible to learn to be deadly without sparring I don't see why you can't tell me and you keep saying 'mma is a sport' over and over again as if anyone has disagreed


BTW that Marine Corp MCMAP program you posted to show how the military creates hand to hand experts- You can be a black belt after 150 hours. After your Gray belt, less than 55 hours training required, you are qualified to go to a seven week course and then you are an instructor trainer. You can be the person who trains trainers after two months total training. I'm sure there are some martial arts experts in the military but that doesn't appear to be the goal of the training- and it doesn't sound like you need to be one in order to be a trainer, or a trainer trainer. The military has a lot of other things to teach soldiers/marines and just want them proficient with basic combatives. Marines for the first two years can stay at Tan belt level, which is 27.5 hours of training.

Also, maybe you can help me with this- for the unarmed stuff in the MCMAP manual, what exactly wouldn't be allowed in MMA rules? All I see is eye gouge, 12-6 elbow, and the throat and neck are mentioned as some of the target areas for the uppercut, knife hand, and rear hand punch.

The vast majority of unarmed stuff they are teaching is compatible with MMA rules so I am a little confused why MMA being a sport makes it useless as a training practice for combat.

What is extra confusing is if the sport MMA is so useless for combat training, why have Navy SEALs been using it for eight years after dropping the previous combative program CQD which was developed by a guy after he ‘traveled to the Orient’ and spoke with an ‘elder master’?

 

[JKD sanda]

After watching that video again I just wanted say that the UFC officials and the medical board will never have clearance or approval and insurance even a valid licence to sponsor sanctioned fights. Because of the intent and nature or type of injury inflicted in a sport event due to old methods or traditional methods and applications of training.

It will never be the case and it already is very brutal, the referee alone has much responsibility in overseeing that certain techniques are not used or go past a certain point where severe injury or death can occur.

This is what I’m saying to so many here who stubbornly resist, sport is not the same as TMA training.

Good video but it won’t mean anything or change official rules of UFC sport competition again because of medical clearance if people start dieing due to brutal strikes while it’s being televised globally.

I just can’t fathom, entertain the idea that the UFC officials would pass and be allowed to draw up fighter contracts where death waivers are permissible under law and agreed to.

So it’s on those grounds and conditions it’s a no from what I understand having read a UFC contract. In fact I actually see UFC becoming more stringent on legality of what can and cannot be done to ensure safety and preservation of life under constitutional state laws or other responsible governing bodies overseeing sport events.

In TMA we used light sparring or drills to learn the idea / concept of the technique over and over again until it’s a part of your reflex or instinctive action motor muscle memory.

Techniques again do vary from what are sport applications to actually inflict damaging and severe injury like pressure point holds, joint locks, break bone and even worse that l just won’t mention.

Classes were from 6.00pm to 10.30pm at least three days a week some places offer more days these days you usually pay for 1hr @ $100, I use to pay no more than $10 lol

The design or class syllabus is essentially a development path to many things including conditioning, weaponry etc very different than learning mma sport combat arts.

Things have changed that’s for sure.

Well of course ufc isn’t going allow death matches . Sport and self defense ma is not that far part . Like I said TMA could cross over to mma just as easily as mma could . Punch is a punch , a kick is a kick . If the techniques work does it really matter. What style it came from ? The only way one gets better is thru training , physical fitness and all out sparring safely without hurting your partners possible . Bottom line no such thing as a superior system or way . If your goal is to just going around getting into fights with ppl then your in this for wrong reasons and your dick , I hope that person is defeated every time . That not directed at you or anyone . What may work for you , may not work for me. What works for a bigger person isn’t going to be the same for smaller person. For MA to work you have to remove the nonsense techniques, teachers have to be open to change and not all students are the same .

 

[Snubnoze707]

I'm glad we finally fixed our troll problem in the MT/KB forum.

Y'all still got some work to do here. Training discussions usually draw a certain crowd, unfortunately.

 

[noc]

You really don't get it do you?

I don't share your opinion, damn let it go, the least you could do is "Agree to Disagree" and leave it at that!

You replied again to a post I made a moment ago to show you some respect that I understand yours and now you insist on the view that I have somewhat changed my view LoL

I don't have anything more to say on this thread, but damn, you guys have to let other people have their own views and opinions........... its called........ "Mutual respect"!

Learn about boundaries and what it means to say................... https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=agree+to+disagree+meaning

Man.. your problem is you are ignorant in combat. You never saw that deadly TMA in a "real figth". You NEED to practice the techniques on sparring, like Bruce Lee knew, FULL CONTACT, he and his students covered their bodies with protection. You need to practice against resistance, sparring is the ONLY WAY

The problem with TMA is that they dont figth anymore, they are just theory, they are from a time when Boxing as we know it dont existed

 

[Frode Falch]

@FighterTwister

To tell me or the public you did Kung Fu for two years means diddly squat, nuda, zilch its only when we talk of completion at full rank in a young, fast, strong practitioner you see the real skills.

So.. How many years of kung fu background do you have?

 

[wwkirk]

Another Shaolin training video:

 

[James L]

No matter your build or any other possible detail, categorically it's all MMA

You have to be able to use every single one of your limbs effectively within every situation

& when it comes to weaponless H2H: it is focused on tried & true MMA adapted boxing to set up MMA adapted Muay Thai as well as vice versa, when neither are being used to make way for MMA adapted grappling, which is made up of MMA adapted No-Gi Submission Grappling (inspired by No-Gi Jiu Jitsu, Catch Wrestling, Judo, & Sambo)

You have to be able to utilize both in tandem, during and after, for ideal/optimal transitions to and between striking & grappling, see: clinch entries, positions, & exits...as well as takedowns, G&P, and submission attempts.


I know he probably doesn't check the thread anymore, but a dose of his own medicine just in case can't hurt...tagless retorts are ultimately harmless

Opinions means there's room to disagree. Fact and fiction have no room for coexistence outside of situations in which it would make no harmful difference—see the world of literature (fiction and nonfiction)—when what is what, is firmly established.


Any MA/SDS vs MMA is like debating the effectiveness of a sling, musket/blade, or a revolver vs a PGF.

 

[Paolo Delutis]

UFC/MMA is sport orientated and TMA techniques are by design illegal or could cause severe injury or death.

The fighting sport bodies or S.M.E's see that all techniques go through serious review and analysis from a "Medical and Insurance" perspective for clearance to use.

UFC have banned quite allot of true martial skill and it is a SPORT like it or not!

I have said this countless times on this Forum, but people harp on about sparring there are some techniques you cannot use in a sparring match.

Although, a true martial artist is put to the test in many ways to show competency, sparring is one of them without the use of certain techniques this is a grey area for S.M.E's.

Some people here just don't understand until they actually do and complete a TMA and see it for what it really is.

To tell me or the public you did Kung Fu for two years means diddly squat, nuda, zilch its only when we talk of completion at full rank in a young, fast, strong practitioner you see the real skills.

You see the real abilities after the vigorous conditioning and training not many undertake by the way here who talk about fighting and sparring as they are to accustomed to gloves and padding.

TMA's do not translate into MMA rule set by design they are two different applications.

TMA is a different breed of what is a Martial Arts Practitioner!

FACT!

Like it or not!

Ive said this before as well..

It seems to be hard concept for people to understand...

Maybe its because they dont train or have never experienced true high level traditional martial arts..

And in fairness thats probably because sadly there arent many good traditional practioners left , or are not celebrated as much as more modern style sport fighting..

I believe all styles are valid to a point both traditional and sport styles..it all depends on the purpose of your training ...and what you are looking to accomplish through your training..

 

[SandisLL]

Military training versus MMA or traditional arts?
I think boxing also is traditonal art, really traditional.
Also many traditional arts does sparrings, competitions etc. Without sparrings no one can get next coloured belt, some clubs even demands participation in tournaments, examinators might demand candidate to compete with opponent in front of certification comitee etc. Sometimes these " sparrings " are more hard than in kumite and so on.
Some clubs trying to do also external examinations for coloured belts, at least one in your coloured belt level.


Of course, thousands of styles do not do even normal sparrings, because " too dangerous ", secretive etc stuff. Not dangerous for them are punching air. Yes, I think, that styles, where they really just punching air are useless, not too dangerous....

Yes, military uses combinations from many arts, including traditional arts.

Traditional arts lose their prestige also because many clubs and organizations lowered their requirements for belts tests. For example, one dojo, former sensei told, that they award black belt only for persons with at least 18 years age. Usually in this dojo black belt was earned in 7 - 11 years, from 150 students only 2 - 3 achieved black belt.
New senesei thinks, that black belt can be earned in 5 years and be given if candidate is 16 years old......

 

[rmongler]

No matter your build or any other possible detail, categorically it's all MMA

You have to be able to use every single one of your limbs effectively within every situation

& when it comes to weaponless H2H: it is focused on tried & true MMA adapted boxing to set up MMA adapted Muay Thai as well as vice versa, when neither are being used to make way for MMA adapted grappling, which is made up of MMA adapted No-Gi Submission Grappling (inspired by No-Gi Jiu Jitsu, Catch Wrestling, Judo, & Sambo)

You have to be able to utilize both in tandem, during and after, for ideal/optimal transitions to and between striking & grappling, see: clinch entries, positions, & exits...as well as takedowns, G&P, and submission attempts.


I know he probably doesn't check the thread anymore, but a dose of his own medicine just in case can't hurt...tagless retorts are ultimately harmless

Opinions means there's room to disagree. Fact and fiction have no room for coexistence outside of situations in which it would make no harmful difference—see the world of literature (fiction and nonfiction)—when what is what, is firmly established.


Any MA/SDS vs MMA is like debating the effectiveness of a sling, musket/blade, or a revolver vs a PGF.

I feel like a more apt metaphor might be like people debating the effectiveness of one given personal weapon over another might be... vs how effective they would be against a platoon of guys who are all carrying weapons.

Certainly you can speak of fine enough weapons in their own right, certainly some can be better than others for one given application or another, such as small unit tactics.

But obviously, the real answer would be to be in a platoon of guys yourself as well.

 

[James L]

I think a more apt metaphor might be like people debating the effectiveness of one given personal weapon over another might be... vs how effective they would be against a platoon of guys who are all carrying weapons.

Certainly you can speak of fine enough weapons in their own right, certainly some can be better than others for one given application or another, such as small unit tactics.

But obviously, the real answer would be to be in a platoon of guys yourself as well.

No misunderstandings about your last two paragraphs, as for the metaphors: MMA is about the usage of only the most effective weapon for any situation, while the promotions put a sporting contest on display which is meant to evoke appreciation for the weaponless H2H aspect of MMA; the metaphor was meant to emphasize how MMA vs MA debate is not that different from an argument about how primitive weapons are better than both present day and future weapons—it should go without saying that both present day and future weapons are more effective than primitive weapons, no matter the situation.

MMA means Mixed Martial Arts, arguing Martial Arts against Mixed Martial Arts is like arguing a single sport vs that specific sport itself and literally every single other sport, from not only our past and our present but also those which will be established in the future.