Why fighters SHOULDN'T go up in weight

[Pancake Sprawl]

Conor learned that the hard way when he fought good competition in LW

Also, I remember reading that Roy Jones's decline started after going up in weight and winning the HW title against Ruiz. Dropping all that weight when he went back down in weight class really hurt Roy's performance, and he was never the same after the Tarver KO

Roy Jones didn't fail going up in weight though. he went up and beat John Ruiz. the problem was going back down to fight Tarver.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

the real issue is they dont take the proper amount of time to put on the appropriate new muscle and they lose speed !!

you def not getting faster


Izzy case he chose to stay and use his speed advantage and that's not enough.

Taking a year off and putting more weight on would have helped tremendously.

he got out muscled and couldn't do ishhh

his punches really had no effect either IMO

couldn't see anything but a nice head kick like Jon pulled off on Cormier

thing od beauty right there for a person really not known for KO power in the stand-up

Unless you've been starving your body, or have never lifted in your life, you can't really put on much muscle without steroids

GSP tried to put on a bunch of muscle to go to MW and just gave himself colitis and ended up gaining almost no muscle

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

I guess I should've clarified, my point is almost everybody should be cutting a significant amount of weight

Dustin grew into his body and is 178 lean now, he's cutting over 20 lbs. to make LW

What I'm talking about is someone like Cowboy, or Conor who walks around in the 170's cutting a few lbs. of water weight and fighting at 170

Oh absolutely. We agree. If you’re going to move up it has to be done right. Moving up on short notice to fill a fight or because you just don’t feel like cutting always ends horribly. Guys like jones that take the time to fill out the frame and grow into the weight class tend to have significant success.

We’ve seen some guys who looked practically in defeat able like Holloway and Adesany move up and take an L because they didn’t take proper time to fill out.

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Roy Jones didn't fail going up in weight though. he went up and beat John Ruiz. the problem was going back down to fight Tarver.

He wanted to back down because he wasn't as competitive at the higher weight class though right?

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Oh absolutely. We agree. If you’re going to move up it has to be done right. Moving up on short notice to fill a fight or because you just don’t feel like cutting always ends horribly. Guys like jones that take the time to fill out the frame and grow into the weight class tend to have significant success.

We’ve seen some guys who looked practically in defeat able like Holloway and Adesany move up and take an L because they didn’t take proper time to fill out.

Yeah, I disagree on the filling out thing though, if you were starving yourself like Dustin, or Conor at 145 then that makes sense, but most guys are already maxed out on how much muscle they can get naturally

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

I guess I should've clarified, my point is almost everybody should be cutting a significant amount of weight

Dustin grew into his body and is 178 lean now, he's cutting over 20 lbs. to make LW

What I'm talking about is someone like Cowboy, or Conor who walks around in the 170's cutting a few lbs. of water weight and fighting at 170

it can work if you have a style like Frankie Edgar. where it's not dependent on strength or power and you're relying on speed, agility, and stamina to outwork your opponents.

the problem is nobody wants to do that. they all want to fight like they're the hammer. then one day you run into a guy like Ngannou, who is the ultimate hammer, and now you're walking into a gun fight with a knife cuz your style is based on power and being able to hurt opponents with single shots and this guy is better at that than you.

 

[Zebra Cheeks]

Yeah, I disagree on the filling out thing though, if you were starving yourself like Dustin, or Conor at 145 then that makes sense, but most guys are already maxed out on how much muscle they can get naturally

I think this portion of the discussion is case by case. Some guys like rumble obviously gained significant muscle when they raised weight classes. Other guys like Max i think we’re just trying to escape horrible effects like seizures that went along with his weight cut.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

He wanted to back down because he wasn't as competitive at the higher weight class though right?

he only had 1 fight there that he won. he was also in negotiations to fight Mike Tyson at that time iirc, but that fell through.

 

[Rear Naked Toke]

Sure...for all of 2 minutes before he gassed

And still has one of the best records of anyone that's been around as long as he has. Especially considering his career has been spread across four weight classes.

He demolished a bunch of guys in the first round, finished fights in the second and third, and has won every decision he's been to. But yes, all of two minutes...

His lack of sub defense hurt him more than his stamina ever did.

 

[Bamboozled]

Conor learned that the hard way when he fought good competition in LW

Also, I remember reading that Roy Jones's decline started after going up in weight and winning the HW title against Ruiz. Dropping all that weight when he went back down in weight class really hurt Roy's performance, and he was never the same after the Tarver KO

Roy just aged and went up because he was losing his step. His physical advantages vs lesser opponents at higher weights was better for his longevity.

 

[GoldenSnitch]

Unless you've been starving your body, or have never lifted in your life, you can't really put on much muscle without steroids

GSP tried to put on a bunch of muscle to go to MW and just gave himself colitis and ended up gaining almost no muscle

i dont totally agree with that.

and i believe GSP issue was his diet plan and the fact he tried to gain 40+ pounds in a year and stay in shape

streamlined it and it backfired imo (weight wise cause obviously he won and that's not a bad thing )

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

it can work if you have a style like Frankie Edgar. where it's not dependent on strength or power and you're relying on speed, agility, and stamina to outwork your opponents.

the problem is nobody wants to do that. they all want to fight like they're the hammer. then one day you run into a guy like Ngannou, who is the ultimate hammer, and now you're walking into a gun fight with a knife cuz your style is based on power and being able to hurt opponents with single shots and this guy is better at that than you.

Frankie got away with it back in the day

Now he is at 135 because he realized he's been fighting dudes too big for him his entire career

He's a great example of what I'm talking about

 

[Arkham's Notorious Geyser]

For every guy that moves up and gets the business like Max Holloway @Arkham's Notorious Geyser theres a guy like Gilbert burns or Thiago santos that moves up and has a lot of success

You just can't help yourself can you lol. So we're righting off Max's chances because he took on the second best active Lightweight on the Roster on short notice and lost? Is that what we're doing Zebra? Copy.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

Frankie got away with it back in the day

Now he is at 135 because he realized he's been fighting dudes too big for him his entire career

He's a great example of what I'm talking about

but he was a long reigning champion at 155lbs. obviously they weren't too big for him if at one time he was the best in the world at that weight.

 

[KillaZs]

He literally said he was 178, and most WW are high 190's or 200

Poirier is 178? Maybe in cage, but he walks around 200

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

but he was a long reigning champion at 155lbs. obviously they weren't too big for him if at one time he was the best in the world at that weight.

That's because it was years ago, prime Frankie would get crushed by the 155ers now

Cmon man you know this

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

Poirier is 178? Maybe in cage, but he walks around 200

He literally says he's 178 in the video dude click on it lol

 

[KillaZs]

He literally says he's 178 in the video dude click on it lol

He is 178 while in training camp. Not normal weigh

 

[Orochimaru 大蛇丸]

He is 178 while in training camp. Not normal weigh

Yes, maybe when he's out of shape he's 200

Other WWs are in shape at high 190's or 200, you're really missing the point, or just being difficult for no reason

 

[KillaZs]

Yes, maybe when he's out of shape he's 200

Other WWs are in shape at high 190's or 200, you're really missing the point, or just being difficult for no reason

Who is 200 in lean shape at ww? Masvidal is like 180 in fight, Usman 190, Covington 180, Thomson 180. Poirier can be 185 in OK shape, you don’t need full muscles to be great.