Why does Rafa Mendes not lock the support hand behind the head in the RNC?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Drew Foster, Oct 20, 2010.

  1. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I realize this is dumb in at least a few ways:

    1. I only have 2 examples, so it may not be a regular thing.

    2. It's possible his opponents tapped before he could lock it behind.

    3. He can do whatever the hell he wants, who am I to question it? His chokes are so strong I doubt it matters anyways, but:

    I noticed in the Leo Vieira fight he put his support hand on Leo's forehead. Leo didn't try to pull it down because he tapped so fast.

    Against Orley de Oliveira he put his support hand on top of the head but not behind it.

    Has anyone that's done a seminar with him worked on the Mata Leao/RNC?

    5:32


    1:30


    Can't tell if he does or doesn't in this one:
     
  2. Kimuralex

    Kimuralex Brown Belt

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    theoretically you can finish the rnc with one arm, the choking arm, if its strong enough then its all that matters.. kinda like marcelos squeeze, he probobly has perfect sensitivity in the chokes as well.
     
  3. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    That was my guess
     
  4. Jiujitsunoob

    Jiujitsunoob Blue Belt

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    This is a really interesting find.

    It looks like he's going for more of a windpipe choke too. I'd be interested to hear him discuss it.
     
  5. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I thought so too but on all of the chokes, at least to me, it looks like his elbow is in line with the chin except for the ADCC trials match. Even then, he could be squeezing his elbows together...

    I noticed it on Leo when I first saw it but I figured he just didn't have time to get the left arm behind the neck. Then I recently saw the ADCC trial matches and the DEEP match and got curious. I'll check my No-Gi Mundials DVDs soon and see if he finished any of his matches there by RNC.

    A lot of ppl here have done seminars and privates with the Mendes Bros. so maybe we'll get an idea.

    I dunno... Unfortunately I don't think there is enough evidence between 3 matches (2 with bad angles) to be able to figure this out without training with him personally.
     
  6. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

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    umm... because it's like he's doing a guillotine from the back? lol
     
  7. DevinTheDewd

    DevinTheDewd Orange Belt

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    A lot of times they are forcing the guy to tap because the pressure on the face is so great. It's not hard to break the jaw of someone defending with their chin, which is bad technique to begin with.
     
  8. StoicDude

    StoicDude Blue Belt

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    Interesting thing about the RNC that I have noticed Rickson and Marcelo do is that they place the non choking hand on their own shoulder instead of behind the guys head.
    I' ve switched to this method and it seems to be more powerful.

    The reason why I know its more powerful is that I used to put my hand behind my opponents head and most of the time they would get that damn chin in for the bad defense. With the hand behind the head people were still able to survive eventhough I was squeezing for dear life.
    With the hand on my shoulder, everybody taps.

    I can't see much on Mendes' videos you posted. I can tell you from personal experience that a one handed RNC works. Got caught in 2 some time ago.
     
  9. GracieMMABarra

    GracieMMABarra Word.

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    I always thought he did it to prevent chin tucking
     
  10. qiksilverman

    qiksilverman Blue Belt

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    in the Leo match he has 1 of Leo's arms trap as to why I think he taps faster - it's looks more along the line of the trachea then a perfect RNC against Orly - also i bet his squeeze is beastly
     
  11. MUFC

    MUFC Brown Belt

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    I'll ask him in December :D
     
  12. Jiujitsunoob

    Jiujitsunoob Blue Belt

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    Yeah, I'm thinking you could be right. That makes a lot of sense.
     
  13. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    I should correct myself by saying when I say "behind the head" I mean grabbing across to your own shoulder.

    I have never used my hand against the actual back of the had in an RNC. When I first learned it at 12, oddly enough, I still never did that.

    I agree with you. With the hand on shoulder that shit in unstoppable.
     
  14. Drew Foster

    Drew Foster Silver Belt

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    Interesting...

    I actually have done that a few times then slid back and across behind the neck to the shoulder.

    Maybe his squeeze negates having to do that.
     
  15. xMikeyX

    xMikeyX Purple Belt

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    maybe he's just countering the escape by having his hand there.
     
  16. Shemhazai

    Shemhazai Black Belt

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    Looks to me like he's pulling up on the forehead. Looks risky to leave the hand there, though, but he might be anticipating the opponent grabbing it.
     
  17. Sloth

    Sloth Brown Belt

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    That's the way I learned it as well. Free hand touching my own shoulder, then covering my hand with the side of my head/ear (angling the head). Makes it much harder for people to reach up and pry the arm free. If you put your palm on the back of their head, it helps push their chin down.
     
  18. nerraw

    nerraw White Belt

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    I see it in the second video.

    He's using more of a modified blade choke than a RNC. Notice at 1:30 that his elbow is not near the neck and his forearm is across the throat.
     
  19. Fwogz1

    Fwogz1 Blue Belt

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    Could you explain a little bit more? I'm having a hard time getting a visual haha. If I have the rnc and my left arm is around the neck grabbing right bicep, where's the other hand?
     
  20. Sloth

    Sloth Brown Belt

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    No problemo, the palm of the other hand (your right hand) would be touching your shoulder and your head would pinch down. Here's my instructor explaining a bit:
     

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