why does Hillary Clinton have such staggering support amongst black Americans?

[SouthoftheAndes]

Maybe Bernie has done a shitty job reaching out? He's certainly has had quite a few missteps. First, early on, he basically refused to talk about black issues. When young politically active black activists (the kind of people that could have made up the base of his black support) tried to force his hand in dealing with issues that they cared about, he became visibly upset. Instead of seeing that as a opportunity, many of his very vocal supporters thought it would be a good idea to publicly lash out at those black activists which rose to the level of harassment in some cases. They also thought it would be a good idea to lecture black people about what is good for black people while completely dismissing what these young activists feel is important. And they did so with very crappy arguments like "Bernie marched for civil rights in the 1960s" as if an action done 50 years ago is relevant enough to earn a vote today. These were bad ideas. Another issue is Bernie's stance on reparations. Its fine to be against reparations but his response to the question is simply dumbfounding. He says he's against it because it would be impossible to get through Congress. His entire platform is impossible to get through Congress so it comes off as hollow political doublespeak from a wavering politician that is too afraid to say that he is against it but also too afraid to say he supports it.

Most of what he's done since has been 90% pandering and 10% policy. Now the same can be said of Clinton but she's the presumptive nominee. If you want to pry votes away from the default choice then you have to give people a reason. He's done a wonderful job of that with young, white liberals but he's got some work to do with everyone else.

The Racism in this thread alone is hilarious to witness.

All these 'white liberals' spewing the "truth" of why Blacks are not feeling the Bern and it comes down to this essentially

"Most blacks are too stupid to get informed with the policies and if they did they WOULD vote for old white man Bernie Sanders because HE IS THE BEST for them and WE KNOW better than you do black people".

^^ That is largely what is also going on via the internet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...ers-are-becoming-one-of-his-biggest-problems/

^^ Respectful black (African American) man gives SLIGHT criticism of Bernie Sanders and Young White "bro" Sanders hipster fanboys go on the attack. Its disgusting to watch because these incidents are not isolated. Ultimately it is always the same thing "oh we know what is best for black people, and black people would be best to listen to us!! So sit down and SHUT UP because our white savior will take care of you".

It is incredibly insulting I must imagine to be told by self proclaimed 'liberals' on how one must think, vote, and behave. And then some have the nerve to claim that those black people who do not support some old white candidate are somehow 'less informed and intelligent'.

Disgusting.

 

[panamaican]

Sanders is actually addressing a lot of stuff that would disproportionately benefit minorities that no other candidate is proposing.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
And his bigger objectives like healthcare, education, and infrastructure will all be a huge benefit to minorities.

I agree with nixkid, re: K-12 education, but reforming that is probably close to being as complicated and contentious as healthcare.
Is anybody addressing that?

But how is it uniquely different from what every Democrat trots out every election cycle to gain the black vote?

Every 2 years, Democrats put on their pro-black community hats and stump for votes. Sanders, Clinton, Dukakis, lol, they all sell the same story dressed up in whatever their specific campaign imagery is. If both candidates are claiming to improve black lives and one is associated with an actual black President and one isn't...well that second one is going to have to be more compelling to take support.

Which is why it's foolish to discuss this before seeing the primary outcomes in those Southern states with large black populations. That's where you'll find out if his message is actually compelling or not.

 

[nixkid]

Sanders is actually addressing a lot of stuff that would disproportionately benefit minorities that no other candidate is proposing.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
And his bigger objectives like healthcare, education, and infrastructure will all be a huge benefit to minorities.

I agree with nixkid, re: K-12 education, but reforming that is probably close to being as complicated and contentious as healthcare.
Is anybody addressing that?

The problem with that is that its the same Democratic argument that has been used since forever. "Well, we can't have a race based solution tailored to solve your specific problem BUT we have a plan that will totally disproportionately benefit blacks, we swear". People are skeptical of that kind of thing.

And yes, K-12 is complicated and contentious as healthcare but Bernie is tackling healthcare, right? So why not this issue too? The fact that no one is addressing it is actually an opportunity.

 

[ripskater]

They like HIllary because black people like Bill.

Blacks probably don't like white northeasterners as much. Maybe cause it's a different culture. And Hillary can change her accent right on the spot. She can get that Southern hospitality and southern accent going and some people fall for it.

 

[VivaRevolution]

The Racism in this thread alone is hilarious to witness.

All these 'white liberals' spewing the "truth" of why Blacks are not feeling the Bern and it comes down to this essentially

"Most blacks are too stupid to get informed with the policies and if they did they WOULD vote for old white man Bernie Sanders because HE IS THE BEST for them and WE KNOW better than you do black people".

^^ That is largely what is also going on via the internet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...ers-are-becoming-one-of-his-biggest-problems/

^^ Respectful black (African American) man gives SLIGHT criticism of Bernie Sanders and Young White "bro" Sanders hipster fanboys go on the attack. Its disgusting to watch because these incidents are not isolated. Ultimately it is always the same thing "oh we know what is best for black people, and black people would be best to listen to us!! So sit down and SHUT UP because our white savior will take care of you".

It is incredibly insulting I must imagine to be told by self proclaimed 'liberals' on how one must think, vote, and behave. And then some have the nerve to claim that those black people who do not support some old white candidate are somehow 'less informed and intelligent'.

Disgusting.

What you are saying and others is just as offensive, that somehow the black community doesn't care Clinton takes money from prison lobby'ists.

That someone fighting for the civil rights movement, doesn't have better credentials than someone who hasn't.

That there is some great divide between the needs of a low income white American, and a low income black American.

That the people who argue there is a reason Clinton has this support, never seem to offer their own rational for the discrepancy.


So SOA, what is your explanation for this support from the black community?

 

[VivaRevolution]

The problem with that is that its the same Democratic argument that has been used since forever. "Well, we can't have a race based solution tailored to solve your specific problem BUT we have a plan that will totally disproportionately benefit blacks, we swear". People are skeptical of that kind of thing.

And yes, K-12 is complicated and contentious as healthcare but Bernie is tackling healthcare, right? So why not this issue too? The fact that no one is addressing it is actually an opportunity.

So is Cornel West wrong in his support of Bernie than?

Is he just being fooled?

I don't understand how anyone can state Bernie is apart of the Democratic establishment, after the way this election has went down so far.

 

[mtron929]

Well, there is correlation between education level and Clinton vs Sanders support at least in the Gallup poll that was conducted months ago.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/186098/clinton-maintains-modest-image-advantage-sanders.aspx

That is, amongst people who have high school degrees or less, the voters support Clinton by 54 to 20% margin whereas for college degree and upward, it is even. So if we assume that black people tend to be less educated than the population as a whole, then one can shift the question onto why more uneducated people tend to view Clinton much more favorably.

 

[Anung Un Rama]

But how is it uniquely different from what every Democrat trots out every election cycle to gain the black vote?

Every 2 years, Democrats put on their pro-black community hats and stump for votes. Sanders, Clinton, Dukakis, lol, they all sell the same story dressed up in whatever their specific campaign imagery is. If both candidates are claiming to improve black lives and one is associated with an actual black President and one isn't...well that second one is going to have to be more compelling to take support.

Which is why it's foolish to discuss this before seeing the primary outcomes in those Southern states with large black populations. That's where you'll find out if his message is actually compelling or not.

Great points that are difficult to argue.
I do think aspects of Sanders' platform are different; I don't recall a Democratic candidate tackling the War on Drugs, the Prison Industrial Complex, and legal reform. All three of those issues affect minorities disproportionately.

I wouldn't call it foolish to ponder this unless we're assuming the polling data is flawed or in dramatic flux.

 

[Ruprecht]

Great points that are difficult to argue.
I do think aspects of Sanders' platform are different; I don't recall a Democratic candidate tackling the War on Drugs, the Prison Industrial Complex, and legal reform. All three of those issues affect minorities disproportionately.

I wouldn't call it foolish to ponder this unless we're assuming the polling data is flawed or in dramatic flux.

Sanders has avoided explicit identity politics though, hasn't he?

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

What you are saying and others is just as offensive, that somehow the black community doesn't care Clinton takes money from prison lobby'ists.

That someone fighting for the civil rights movement, doesn't have better credentials than someone who hasn't.

That there is some great divide between the needs of a low income white American, and a low income black American.

That the people who argue there is a reason Clinton has this support, never seem to offer their own rational for the discrepancy.


So SOA, what is your explanation for this support from the black community?

And here we go. Some people just can't handle any criticism of Bernie. It's weird.

Throwing out your listed repeated talking points about how all Black people NEED to Vote Bernie and to hell with them if they dont. Calm down and sssshhhhhh because I am sick of seeing this blatant racist behavior from alleged white 'liberals'. And again I am not the only one to notice this. It's all over the Internet and I posted 1 link of a smart black guy being viciously attacked by Bernie Bros from daring to criticize Bernie.

And lastly I am not parading around the Internet like a moron telling black people how they should vote. Furthermore, I am nor are any Clinton fans running around the Internet telling them that we know what's best for them. All I stress is that people think from themselves.

Oh I also like how you mention the "he marched with civil rights" as if that somehow means black voters are obligatigated to vote for him. Or you acting like all black people have issues with the existence of prisons.

So is Cornel West wrong in his support of Bernie than?

Is he just being fooled?

I don't understand how anyone can state Bernie is apart of the Democratic establishment, after the way this election has went down so far.

He never said that you are misrepresenting what he said and using logical fallacies.

 

[IGIT]

IGIT

I would wager it comes down to lack of voter knowledge with perhaps the intrinsic nature of the common, uninformed black voter to be weary of the old, white, jew.

hi JTF,

but most black americans don't even know who Mr. Sanders is, according to the Gallup poll i cited. they may ultimately not like him because he is a senior citizen and is jewish - but i'm not sure they're even aware of that.

- IGIT

 

[Anung Un Rama]

The problem with that is that its the same Democratic argument that has been used since forever. "Well, we can't have a race based solution tailored to solve your specific problem BUT we have a plan that will totally disproportionately benefit blacks, we swear". People are skeptical of that kind of thing.

And yes, K-12 is complicated and contentious as healthcare but Bernie is tackling healthcare, right? So why not this issue too? The fact that no one is addressing it is actually an opportunity.

The pessimism is well deserved. Outside of reforming the War on Drugs, the Prison Industrial Complex, reforming our legal system, medicare for all, and tuition-free college, what policy would you like to see that specifically addresses blacks?

I can't honestly answer that question, but its probably because its extremely complicated.
What would you propose?

 

[IGIT]

heya Rup,

It's not just amongst "Black" voters, Sanders also trails Clinton with 33 to her 54 percent amongst "Hispanic" voters.

sure, that may be the case, but most of the reading i've done regarding Mrs. Clinton's "firewall" relates to her overwhelming strength among black voters.

so why do they favor Mrs. Clinton? i'm not saying they should or should not - i'm just curious about the rationale.

- IGIT

 

[Anung Un Rama]

hi JTF,

but most black americans don't even know who Mr. Sanders is, according to the Gallup poll i cited. they may ultimately not like him because he is a senior citizen and is jewish - but i'm not sure they're even aware of that.

- IGIT

I think you're thinking of Ted Nugent.

 

[SouthoftheAndes]

Well, there is correlation between education level and Clinton vs Sanders support at least in the Gallup poll that was conducted months ago.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/186098/clinton-maintains-modest-image-advantage-sanders.aspx

That is, amongst people who have high school degrees or less, the voters support Clinton by 54 to 20% margin whereas for college degree and upward, it is even. So if we assume that black people tend to be less educated than the population as a whole, then one can shift the question onto why more uneducated people tend to view Clinton much more favorably.

Wait but Sanders fans claim that demographic to be his base? Plus I saw evidence showing that people who are wealthy or earn over 100 a year favor Clinton heavily.

Sanders has avoided explicit identity politics though, hasn't he?

He hasnt. What is also interesting is how alleged white liberals are now claiming that black people are less educated hence they don't support Bernie. Now that is racist

 

[IGIT]

Probably. The poll I linked to was national though, and shows the breakdown by individual categories. It was younger voters, white voters and male voters where Bernie closed the gap to Clinton. In Iowa the gaps had generally closed, and Sanders did even better with the under 30 crowd than he has polled nationally, but the same trends are apparent. As I understand it, the non-white vote wouldn't be much of a factor in Iowa?

hi again Rup,

3.4% of Iowans are black, though i'm unsure how many of them are Democrats.

its enough to have swung the state one way or another, given the closeness of the race.

- IGIT

 

[Ruprecht]

He hasnt. What is also interesting is how alleged white liberals are now claiming that black people are less educated hence they don't support Bernie. Now that is racist

Can you give me an example? I've only seem him address issues from a structuralist perspective.

 

[panamaican]

Great points that are difficult to argue.
I do think aspects of Sanders' platform are different; I don't recall a Democratic candidate tackling the War on Drugs, the Prison Industrial Complex, and legal reform. All three of those issues affect minorities disproportionately.

I wouldn't call it foolish to ponder this unless we're assuming the polling data is flawed or in dramatic flux.

Challenging the War on Drugs is a modern platform than even members of the GOP support. The same with the Prison industrial Complex. Legal reform is still more of a Dem thing.

Nothing against Sanders, I'm no voting for either Democrat but these are same talking points that everyone is already talking about. Just 2 articles talking about the growing bipartisan support for the first 2 points.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/19/opinion/liu-prison-reform/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-piper/war-on-drugs-bipartisan-consensus_b_8311920.html

 

[Ruprecht]

hi again Rup,

3.4% of Iowans are black, though i'm unsure how many of them are Democrats.

its enough to have swung the state one way or another, given the closeness of the race.

- IGIT

Well, it swung it for Hilary already. She lead 58% to 34% in the exit polls. Given the low overall percentage of non-white voters in Iowa, that surely spells trouble for Sanders in the rest of the nation?

 

[Anung Un Rama]

Sanders has avoided explicit identity politics though, hasn't he?

Other than name dropping for BLM a few times, I would say he has avoided it, yes.
That article was BRUTAL, but true.