Why does everyone pretend Buakaw didn't beat Petrosyan in his prime?

[JustOnce]

2 years is a big difference in Kickboxing experience to when he won the MAX. When he fought Buakaw he was relatively unknown. Buakaw was his FIRST big fight, and is what put him on the map. Petrosyan hadn't peaked by that point, so yes I think its completely fine to say he wasn't in his prime yet because he wasn't. NOBODY thought Petrosyan would have a chance against Buakaw when that fight was announced, Buakaw was red hot after his last MAX run.

Who said he was "so far off from his prime" in this thread?

 

[Snubnoze707]

Perhaps you need some reading comprehension exercises? Saying Petrosyan hadn't peaked yet and wasn't yet in his prime at the point of that fight was a factual statement. Saying that doesn't equate to being "so far off from his prime".

 

[JustOnce]

Perhaps you need some reading comprehension exercises? Saying Petrosyan hadn't peaked yet and wasn't yet in his prime at the point of that fight was a factual statement. Saying that doesn't equate to being "so far off from his prime".

 

[Snubnoze707]

I'd expect such a level of discourse from a weeb...

 

[Gratis]

Petrosyan's prime was from 2009ish when he won the K-1 GP and went on that impressive win streak until he lost to Ristie in 2013. Don't see how this is debatable. Being a 21-year old with limited experience in your first big fight is hardly one's "prime" as a fighter. He was still fairly green. Now, he wasn't a complete novice and whether or not he would beat Buakaw if they fought later or when he was in his "prime" is another conversation, but he definitely hadn't reached his highest level as a fighter at that point.

A "draw" in Europe and there were no elbows iirc. Moving backwards excessively is frowned upon in real muay thai. Buakaw wins even under kickboxing rules. Regardless Petro didn't win and it's a blemish on his record and should be taken into account when discussing his GOAT status

It wasn't supposed to be "real Muay Thai". The fight took place in K-1 under K-1 rules, so how the fight would be scored in Muay Thai is irrelevant.

And not for nothing but it doesn't really matter if he was moving backwards or not, what matters is who's hitting and who's getting hit, not what direction they're moving. Simply going forward doesn't mean you're winning the fight if you're not outstriking your opponent. Maybe that matters in the scoring criteria in Thailand under FTR, but again it wasn't a MT fight and it wasn't in Thailand. I don't see much difference between how Petrosyan fights and how most fimeu fight anyway.

What crying? He's the consensus GOAT

He's hardly the consensus pick, even in his weight class.

 

[JustOnce]

I'd expect such a level of discourse from a weeb...

 

[Kanka]

It was a Muay Thai fight without elbows for the WMC Middleweight Title, organized by Rumble of the Kings (ROK). Elbows are often not allowed in Muay Thai fights in Sweden. Just because elbows were not allowed, and K-1 was a co-promoter doesn't make it a "K-1 rules kickboxing fight". I highly doubt the judges were instructed to judge it like a kickboxing fight. Regardless it should have been a win for Buakaw.

 

[Tayski]

Buakaw did not beat Petrosyan, the fight was ruled a draw. A lot of people have their opinions about the decision, but it’s their opinion and not reality.

That's like saying Jon Jones didn't beat Matt Hamill and the reality is Matt Hamill won. Or that Roy Jones JR lost that Olympic final.

There's what is the official outcome of a fight and what is the reality of how the two fighters performed as seen by millions. Let's not pretend bad decisions don't happen in combat sports.

 

[Tayski]

If the human race could convert the incessant crying and moaning of Buakaw fans into electricity, climate change would cease tomorrow

Ironically, there's actually a ton more crying and moaning from Petrosyan and his fans by far.

When Petrosyan got KO'd by Andie Ristie they found a million excuses of why it happened like Petrosyan had a broken hand or that Ristie tempered his gloves (which isn't the case since that was in another fight). When Petrosyan lost to Petchmorakot, Petrosyan, his camp and his fans created so much drama that the decision was then wrongly overturned by ONE. Even if we pretend that he got robbed (which he really didn't), since when do we overturn judges decision post-fight to benefit the organization?

Nobody made excuses when Buakaw got KO'd by Sato or lost a decision to Jonay Risco in Enfusion or got beat by Khayal Dzhaniev.

 

[Snubnoze707]

That's like saying Jon Jones didn't beat Matt Hamill and the reality is Matt Hamill won. Or that Roy Jones JR lost that Olympic final.

There's what is the official outcome of a fight and what is the reality of how the two fighters performed as seen by millions. Let's not pretend bad decisions don't happen in combat sports.

There are levels to this. Matt Hamil won by DQ via illegal downward elbow. How is that even in the same discussion about a relatively close fight that went to draw?

 

[Tayski]

It was a Muay Thai fight without elbows for the WMC Middleweight Title, organized by Rumble of the Kings (ROK). Elbows are often not allowed in Muay Thai fights in Sweden.

Been living in Sweden for nearly 3 years now and never seen or heard of a fight without elbows in A-class or pro. Was that not something more specific to ROK rules?

 

[Tayski]

There are levels to this. Matt Hamil won by DQ via illegal downward elbow. How is that even in the same discussion about a relatively close fight that went to draw?

I took an extreme example to explain that his logic was flawed. There are official decisions sure, and there is what is a relatively common consensus by the millions who watched. If someone watches that fight objectively, I don't see how they can consider it a draw.

Now I'm not saying the result should be overturned because it's wrong or that is should not be counted as a draw. But if people start trying to compare who is the greatest and who beat who in their prime then it's also good to consider what actually happened in the fights and not just what the official results are.

 

[Kanka]

Been living in Sweden for nearly 3 years now and never seen or heard of a fight without elbows in A-class or pro. Was that not something more specific to ROK rules?

I think not allowed or hard to obtain permission between 2006-2010, and has gradually been returning after 2010

 

[Kanka]

Ironically, there's actually a ton more crying and moaning from Petrosyan and his fans by far.

When Petrosyan got KO'd by Andie Ristie they found a million excuses of why it happened like Petrosyan had a broken hand or that Ristie tempered his gloves (which isn't the case since that was in another fight). When Petrosyan lost to Petchmorakot, Petrosyan, his camp and his fans created so much drama that the decision was then wrongly overturned by ONE. Even if we pretend that he got robbed (which he really didn't), since when do we overturn judges decision post-fight to benefit the organization?

Nobody made excuses when Buakaw got KO'd by Sato or lost a decision to Jonay Risco in Enfusion or got beat by Khayal Dzhaniev.

A lot of people think it was dive though. Not sure if that is better

 

[Kanka]

Logical consistency test: If Petrosyan was not at his 70 kg prime in 2007 since ha lacked accomplishments, was Buakaw not in his 70 prime in 2004 when he fought Jordan Tai? Both clearly lacked accomplishments in this weight-class but it's hard to deny their fighting abilities.

 

[lukeuidswords]

Ironically, there's actually a ton more crying and moaning from Petrosyan and his fans by far.

When Petrosyan got KO'd by Andie Ristie they found a million excuses of why it happened like Petrosyan had a broken hand or that Ristie tempered his gloves (which isn't the case since that was in another fight). When Petrosyan lost to Petchmorakot, Petrosyan, his camp and his fans created so much drama that the decision was then wrongly overturned by ONE. Even if we pretend that he got robbed (which he really didn't), since when do we overturn judges decision post-fight to benefit the organization?

Nobody made excuses when Buakaw got KO'd by Sato or lost a decision to Jonay Risco in Enfusion or got beat by Khayal Dzhaniev.

I don’t think that’s what irony is - considering we’re literally in another Buakaw simpjerk thread crying about a decision that happened almost 15 years ago.

And to pretend that it was Petro fans that got ONE FC to overturn the Phetmorakot decision and not ONE themselves wanting to see Petro in the final above all else is the height of intellectual dishonesty. You don’t even believe that.

 

[Tayski]

A lot of people think it was dive though. Not sure if that is better

Which one was supposedly a dive?

 

[Tayski]

I don’t think that’s what irony is - considering we’re literally in another Buakaw simpjerk thread crying about a decision that happened almost 15 years ago.

And to pretend that it was Petro fans that got ONE FC to overturn the Phetmorakot decision and not ONE themselves wanting to see Petro in the final above all else is the height of intellectual dishonesty. You don’t even believe that.

It's definitely ironical to speak about the supposedly "incessant crying and moaning" of Buakaw fans while the other fighter in question in his thread has far more of those crying and moaning delusional fans. Proof at hand is that for every Petrosyan loss or draw they have excuses for them happening. "He got poisoned", "he had a broken hand", "his opponent was probably cheating with tempered gloves because his gloves were tempered with in another fight", "his opponent cheated with too much clinch and knee", and so on.

While Petrosyan's fans are definitely not the main reason for which the Pethmorakot decision was overturned, and as you rightly pointed out more due to it benefiting ONE FC first and foremost, it's ignorant to pretend that the hundreds if not thousands of crying comments from Petrosyan fans on social media on all posts covering the topic had no influence at all in reinforcing that decision.

But out of all the other points made in my response, you chose to focus on the word "ironical" and try to make it sound as if I said that it's just Petrosyan's fans that got ONE FC to overturn the Phetmorakot decision. Petrosyan's camp started the drama, it had tons of follow-up by his fans on social media and then ONE FC conveniently overturned the decision since it was also in their best interest.

I just don't see Buakaw or his fans finding excuses for every one of his losses or draws like it happens with Petrosyan and his fans every single time.

 

[Kanka]

Which one was supposedly a dive?

Buakaw vs Sato

 

[II Muchetto II]

A "draw" in Europe and there were no elbows iirc. Moving backwards excessively is frowned upon in real muay thai. Buakaw wins even under kickboxing rules. Regardless Petro didn't win and it's a blemish on his record and should be taken into account when discussing his GOAT status

That's a total misconception. It isn't frowned upon in terms of scoring. Samart Payakaroon used to fight going backwards all the time.

If a blocked kick sends you backwards, it's scored against you. It's mainly some muay Thai gyms that frown upon you fighting on the back foot, they like to drill toughness by not taking a step back. but it's nothing to do with the scoring.

In regards to the conversation. Petro was certainly a little green in his fight with Buakaw. What ever the result he walked away with a win that night, just for giving the king at that time a close fight. But I suspect when he watched it back, he'd be happy with the draw.

But personally I feel its slightly double standards when people don't want to accept the draw due to an injustice. But in the same sentence don't want to accept an injustice being overturned into a NC with Petro/Petch 1. Before it got over turned, most people on here felt petrosyan had won. By a even bigger margin that burkaw beating petrosyan. Some people seem to really dislike petrosyan for what ever reason.

Overturning decisions isn't a road I would like to see kickboxing go down. More judges and better reffing would be a better option. As its hard to watch bad desision take place period. Especially when there is a million dollars on the line. But it will never happen, because close fights are always subjective.

But surely if a desision from a fight from 14 years ago still upsets people, then surely the same people will be happy that a org desided to review a dodgy desision and arrange a rematch, due to the stakes being so high?