Why do so many people pass out from the Kata Gatame?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by n1k, Nov 23, 2005.

  1. n1k

    n1k Yellow Belt

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    Now the Kata Gatame (or arm triangle)picture is a very strong choke, but one thing about it that particularly stands out about it is how many times Ive seen it put the recipient to sleep. Its a strong choke, but it cant be more constricting than a triangle choke or a RNC, can it? It seems like whenever an arm triangle is attempted the opponent refuses to submit and passes out, examples are Shaolin vs Nakayama, Horn vs Liddell, Bas vs Someone, and Marcelo Garcia vs someone in a no gi grappling match.

    Now I may be incorrect in my assertion that it doesnt happen as much with other chokes, but this has been my experience.
     
  2. tequilaman

    tequilaman Guest

    It doesn't hurt and they just go to sleep.

    They don't panic and they think they can fight it, and then all of the sudden they wake up with the ref over them.

    Funny stuff watching a dude wake up from a sleeper choke.
     
  3. Stoic1

    Stoic1 Patriot

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    Because it is a slow choke.

    That means it takes a bit longer to take effect. In that extra time the opponent has the opportunity to think, Hmmmm I can get out of this. It doesn't hurt. I can take it. Just a little m..o...r.... Zzzzzzz.
     
  4. SKD

    SKD Blue Belt

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    The way my coach does it it feels like my neck is going to pop. I tap early with the arm triangle.
     
  5. loksxronin

    loksxronin Blue Belt

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    its because it doesn't feel like anything more than a pin when its put on, then things start to spin and you wake up a few seconds later from someone slapping you. it also puts little to no pressure on your windpipe, so you don't freak out.
     
  6. JABobo3

    JABobo3 Orange Belt

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    exactly, if you do it just right, any choke will work like this. I was put in a Gator roll(anaconda choke) the other day and it was on so clean i didnt notice it was choking me so while trying to escape i passed out. Funny stuff.
     
  7. DojoJanitor

    DojoJanitor White Belt

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    In judo, kata gatame is normally taught from the side, and the attacker can lift his hips to press his bodyweight directly down on the opponent's strangling arm. In this way, you have the added bodyweight doing the work, instead of the muscle in the legs or arms (as in triangle or anaconda).
     
  8. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    Because they don't tap soon enough. Plus if you walk around their head like a clock choke it goes on really fucking tight.
     
  9. IMP

    IMP OBLIVION RECORDER

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    Yeah I know that... once I had mount on my teacher and was goin for armbar... he he pushed my arm to the side and pulled me down... put my hand on my chin for defense but the pressure was on my neck... tapped out.
     
  10. Foolkiller

    Foolkiller You have meddled with the primal forces of nature!

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    That's a slight variation on the choke in case people defend by "picking up the phone". You rotate your wrist bone so the blade of it is in the back of your oppeont's neck, post out your outside leg and drive diagonally forward. It's a cervical lock, not a choke.
     
  11. IMP

    IMP OBLIVION RECORDER

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    hm, k
     
  12. Chthon

    Chthon Silver Belt

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    So you have one of your arms on one of their neck arteries, and the other artery is blocked by their own arm?
     
  13. IMP

    IMP OBLIVION RECORDER

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    yeah
     
  14. scorcho

    scorcho Brown Belt

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    It is just a very deceptive, sneek up on you kind of choke.
     
  15. sproggdawg

    sproggdawg Nap Facilitator

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    Tied for my favorite move. Its fairly easy to get if your patient. How hard do you guys squeeze after you sink it? Id say I go about 50% while they fight and then when I feel them start to lose it i steadily increase up to 80 or 100%. Does anyone ever have problems using this on a larger/stronger opponent?
     
  16. apapen

    apapen Yellow Belt

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    I find it that it chokes better larger opontents. The only problem I have with it is that it really puts a toll in the ears, specially with gi.
     
  17. Darth Shlong

    Darth Shlong District World Champion

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    uhhhh its called a choke hence you pass out from lack of air and tappage
    its pretty simple
     
  18. Dedicado

    Dedicado Machetero

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    With respect, I disagree. It's really a strangle hold more so than a suffocation hold. You do not pass out because you cannot breathe ( although sometimes this is the case.) You pass out because of the lack of oxygenated blood to the brain due to preassure on the carotoid arteries.
     
  19. b0b

    b0b Banned Banned

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    Besides the fact that it is a blood choke, you missed the point entirely. He said compared to other chokes, like the RNC or Triangle, people tend to not tap to this and end up passing out.
     
  20. thecas

    thecas Blue Belt

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    One thing that keeps repeated here is that if you have your upper arm on your lifted high to your head or across, say, when others are doing some triangles, your arteries on that side is blocked. However, I find that this effect is little, if any. For one, just look at your shoulder. It is, obviously, quite a distance from your neck. For it to block your own artery, You got to dislocate your arm to move it up to block it.
     

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