Why do modern UFC fans (who never watched Pride FC) hate on Fedor so much even though he's the GOAT?

DayV said:
Fedor fought 13-14 Top 10 ranked opponents during his run till 2010.
That is like 43%

Nogueira 3x, Herring, Sobral, Cro Cop, Schilt, Randleman, Coleman 1, Fujita, Hunt, Arlovski, Sylvia, Rogers

+ he fought other good fighters like Arona, T Koshaka, Goodridge, Ogawa, Coleman 2

So Fedor fought 20+ good opponents who posed legit danger for most fighters.
Also fighting 4 times per years greatly increases the risk of loss and wear than fighting once or twice per year. Without adjusting of ideal form in camps for months for one or two days in a year, and without months of rest inbetween fights, you are in a lot greater danger to lose against lesser guys. Also Top 40 fighters like Goltsov or Pavlovich etc... are good enough to upset guys from the top, but they just cant get the opportunity to fight them in today's system.
Fight 2 guys like them "cans" in between top contenders every 3 months, and there is a big chance that you will lose even if you are UFC champion.

Wanderlei is among Top 2-3 LHW goats on almost all pools on this forum.
Sakuraba, Yoshida, Kondo, Nakamura, Tamura were all very good fighters, mostly ranked at those times. Kyoshi Tamura was equaly great pioneer as winners of UFC tournaments from '90s. Them + likes of Rampage, Arona, Mezger, Henderson were great competition for Wanderlei in Pride.
So it is just UFC fanboys bias who are falsely trying to discredit every Japanese fighter as a can, or Americans desperate for their own brand, or ignoring that WW 2 against Japan is long time over.
Click to expand...

You're counting 4-5 extra top 10s there. That's kind of the point. The exaggerated claims of fanboys. Classic.
 
BFoe said:
Dude, trying to get through to that guy is pointless. Our debate spilled into this thread from another thread. I had let that one fizzle out because in a lot of ways he’s not discussing this in good faith. For example: up above, he said it’s easier to accumulate 31 wins if cans are included. He said the same thing in the last thread, and predicted I’d be too biased to agree—but I agreed right away. It didn’t change any of my points, because it’s not about the number of wins for me. But I do think one is likely to win more if they fight scrubs. On the flip side, he refused to acknowledge that Hunt was a ranked win even when I provided archived rankings showing that he was. In this thread, I provided even more sources. Did dude ever say:
“Oh shit, I guess he was ranked! My bad”? Lol nope. He just ignores Hunt now and goes back to splitting cunthairs over Randleman or whomever.
Throughout all of this, if he made a valid or factual point, I acknowledged it. If I make a valid point, he stubbornly refuses to acknowledge it and just starts ranting and raving and screaming in all caps like he did above. It’s a pointless discussion.
He centers his debate around his made-up stat of “percentage of unranked fighters to total wins,” then purposely tries. to skew numbers to reduce the number of ranked opponents Fedor fought, then performs some sleight of hand by using the terms “unranked fighters” and “bums” interchangeably—like he did above when he said Fedor fought “70% bums.” But in the last thread I broke down exactly how many cans he fought compared to Stipe or DC. Stipe and DC were around 26% and Fedor around 30%. I also broke down how often he fought ranked opponents compared to Stipe, and he didn’t like that; and in this thread I compared it to JDS, and you see how his blood pressure went through the roof. <45>
Anyway, work during COVID times is crazy and I’ve got a bunch of OT to work, so he’s all yours now. Take care of him, he’s a special soul.
Click to expand...

3-3 the first time he faced 6 top 10 guys in a row. That's all, friend. Much worse than any other top 10 HW of all time.
 
Some of them are irrational 'because of his fans' types while others just cant appreciate that era. Some of them have another favorite fighter that they regard as goat so that means they gotta bash fedor.
 
Rajon Rondo said:
Fedor's prime was him fighting pro wrestlers and freakshow. Pride FC had horrible management. Even Cro Cop fought cans, he fought a guy who went to WWE LOL.
Click to expand...

Cro cop fought 4 times that year including fights with big nog, igor, heath herring. He then fought 7 times next year in 2004 including fights with randleman 2x, Aleks Emelianenko, Mark Coleman and Josh Barnett. That strength of schedule shits on any UFC fighter today.
 
Fioretti said:
You're counting 4-5 extra top 10s there. That's kind of the point. The exaggerated claims of fanboys. Classic.
Click to expand...

Sorry,
I am not counting anything extra.
Authentic rankings by major MMA media from those times.

Fedor vs ranked opponents:

WIN - Brett Rogers - Nov / 7 / 2009 -- Strikeforce / M-1 Global - Fedor vs. Rogers
7 hw - 2009 - Nov 1 - Fight Matrix-Published
6 hw - 2009 - Oct 31 - Sherdog
8 hw - 2009 - Oct 27 - MMA Weekly
6 hw - 2009 - Oct 13 (16) - Independent World MMA Rankings

WIN - Andrei Arlovski - Jan / 24 / 2009 -- Affliction - Day of Reckoning
19' P4P - 2008 - Dec 31 - YAHOO
3 hw - 2009 - JAN (4?) - MMA Fighting
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 11 - Bloody Elbow-Meta
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 7 - Sherdog
2 hw - 2009 - Jan 6 - Sports Illustrated/Josh Gross

WIN - Tim Sylvia - Jul / 19 / 2008 -- Affliction - Banned
4 hw - 2008 - Jul 9 - Sherdog
5 hw - 2008 - Jul 8 - MMA Weekly
5 hw - 2008 - Jun 30 - MMA Fighting
5 hw - 2008 - Jun 24 - Bloody Elbow-Meta

WIN - Matt Lindland - Apr / 14 / 2007 -- Bodog Fight - Clash of the Nations
8 P4P - 2007 - Mar 30 - MMA on Tap
1 mw - 2007 - Apr 10 - MMA Weekly
3 mw - 2007 - Mar 7 - MMA News
2 mw - 2007 - JAN (17) - Bloody Knux
1 mw - 2006 - Nov 30 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Mark Hunt - Dec / 31 / 2006 -- Pride FC - Shockwave 2006
9 hw - 2006 - Dec 19 - MMA Weekly
7 hw - 2006 - Nov 30 - MMA Fighting
9 hw - 2006 - Nov 29 - MMA News
5 hw - 2006 - NOV - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport

WIN - Mirko Filipovic - Aug / 28 / 2005 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2005
2 hw - 2005 - Aug 12 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
3 hw - 2005 - JUN - Full Contact Fighter
3 hw - 2005 - May (12) - Bloody Knux
3 hw - 2005 - May 4 - ADCC MMA Top Ten

WIN - Tsuyoshi Kosaka - Apr / 3 / 2005 -- Pride - Bushido 6
17' hw - 2005 - Mar 8 - MMA Fighting


WIN - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Dec / 31 / 2004 -- Pride - Shockwave 2004
2 hw - 2004 - Dec 26 - The MMA Collective-MMARanks
1 hw - 2004 - Dec 20 - ADCC MMA Top Ten
2 hw - 2004 - NOV - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
2 hw - 2004 - Nov 14 - MMA Fighting

NC - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Aug / 15 / 2004 -- Pride - Final Conflict 2004
2 hw - 2004 - Jun 22 - The MMA Collective-MMARanks
2 hw - 2004 - Jul - MMA Fighting
2 hw - 2004 - Jul - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll - MMA Weekly

WIN - Naoya Ogawa - Aug / 15 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2004
15 hw - 2004 - Jul 5 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Kevin Randleman - Jun / 20 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Critical Countdown 2004
10 lhw - 2004 - May 20 - ADCC MMA Top Ten
8 lhw - 2004 - MAY - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
9 lhw - 2004 - Apr 12 - Stephen Quadros

WIN - Mark Coleman - Apr / 25 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Total Elimination 2004
8 hw - 2004 - APR^ - Max Fighting

WIN - Kazuyuki Fujita - Jun / 8 / 2003 -- Pride 26 - Bad to the Bone
10 hw - 2003 - May 4 - MMA News

WIN - Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Mar / 16 / 2003 -- Pride 25 - Body Blow
1 hw - 2003 - Mar 4 - MMA News
1 hw - 2003 - MAR^ - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport
1 hw - 2003 - Feb 15 - MMA Media Top 10
1 hw - 2003 - Jan 31 - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll

WIN - Heath Herring - Nov / 24 / 2002 -- Pride 23 - Championship Chaos 2
4 hw - 2002 - Nov 1 - MMA Media Top 10
4 hw - 2002 - OCT - Associated Fight Press-Fightsport
3 hw - 2002 - Sep 4 - Stephen Quadros
7 hw - 2002 - FEB - MMA Weekly-Fan Vote

WIN - Semmy Schilt - Jun / 23 / 2002 -- Pride 21 - Demolition
10 hw - 2002 - Jun 11 - MMA Media Top 10
9 hw - 2002 - Jan 12 - Stephen Quadros

WIN - Renato Sobral - Aug / 11 / 2001 -- Rings - 10th
9 hw - 2001 - JAN - MMA Writers Top Ten (^2-0 vs TK & Tamura)

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/anyone-remember-thread-w-rankings-of-fedors-opponents.2601403/
 
The moral to the story is that Fedor is the GOATiest GOAT.
 
it's probably because of the annoying threads MMAboomers keep making about him - like this one.

534dkv.jpg


Kind of like a lot of people started making up shit about PRIDE ('all the fights were works!!11') probably because they got annoyed by the 'PRIDe pwns UFC in every way possibel and all PRIDe fighters are going to destroy the UFC' fanboy threads (and youtube vids) that got spammed incessantly about the time the UFC took over PRIDE (it's funny that people can't just enjoy the fights or root for particular fighters, but they have to get so tribal about the orgs too...).
 
Royce 90's goat.

Fedor 2000's goat.

Khabib 2010's goat.

Demetrious Johnson, GSP, Silva, and a few more legends are right up there.
 
DayV said:
Sorry,
I am not counting anything extra.
Authentic rankings by major MMA media from those times.

Fedor vs ranked opponents:

WIN - Matt Lindland - Apr / 14 / 2007 -- Bodog Fight - Clash of the Nations
8 P4P - 2007 - Mar 30 - MMA on Tap
1 mw - 2007 - Apr 10 - MMA Weekly
3 mw - 2007 - Mar 7 - MMA News
2 mw - 2007 - JAN (17) - Bloody Knux
1 mw - 2006 - Nov 30 - MMA Fighting


WIN - Tsuyoshi Kosaka - Apr / 3 / 2005 -- Pride - Bushido 6
17' hw - 2005 - Mar 8 - MMA Fighting


WIN - Naoya Ogawa - Aug / 15 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Final Conflict 2004
15 hw - 2004 - Jul 5 - MMA Fighting

WIN - Kevin Randleman - Jun / 20 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Critical Countdown 2004
10 lhw - 2004 - May 20 - ADCC MMA Top Ten
8 lhw - 2004 - MAY - Fighters & Broadcasters Poll
9 lhw - 2004 - Apr 12 - Stephen Quadros

WIN - Mark Coleman - Apr / 25 / 2004 -- Pride FC - Total Elimination 2004
8 hw - 2004 - APR^ - Max Fighting

WIN - Kazuyuki Fujita - Jun / 8 / 2003 -- Pride 26 - Bad to the Bone
10 hw - 2003 - May 4 - MMA News


WIN - Renato Sobral - Aug / 11 / 2001 -- Rings - 10th
9 hw - 2001 - JAN - MMA Writers Top Ten (^2-0 vs TK & Tamura)

https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/anyone-remember-thread-w-rankings-of-fedors-opponents.2601403/
Click to expand...

LOL!

  • Listing Matt LIndland, a ranked MW, is sad.
  • LIsting TK at #17, sad again.
  • Ogawa at #15, more sadness.

Randleman and Coleman are covered here in the historical rankings from May 2004:

May 2004

Heavyweight
1. Emelianeko Fedor - 99 Points (9 first place votes)
2. Minotauro Nogueira - 85 Points
3. Tim Sylvia - 82 Points
4. Josh Barnett - 74 Points (1 first place vote)
5. Mirko Cro Cop - 72 Points
6. Andrei Arlovksi - 69 Points
7. Heath Herring - 42 Points
8. Pedro Rizzo - 31 Points
9. Semmy Schilt - 25 Points
10.Frank Mir - 18 Points

Neither ranked!

Fujita not on this June 2003 list from the same historical rankings:

June 2003

Heavyweight:
1) Fedor Emelianenko (16-1-0)
2) Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (21-2-1)
3) Josh Barnett (14-1-0)
4) Mirko Filipovic (9-1-2)
5) Tim Sylvia (16-0-0)
6) Andrei Arlovski (6-3-0)
7) Heath Herring (23-9-0)
8) Mark Coleman (13-5-0)
9) Wesley Correira (13-5-0)
10) Travis Wiuff (29-4-0)

Babalu not on this list from the same historical rankings:

July 17, 2001
HEAVYWEIGHT 205 lbs. and up (93 kg and up)
1. Coleman, Mark 156
2. Couture, Randy 135
3. Vovchanchin, Igor 114
4. Rizzo, Pedro 111
5. Fujita, Kazuyuki 91
6. Nogueira, Rodrigo "Minotauro" 81
7. Herring, Heath 55
8. Kerr, Mark 40
9. Barnett, Josh 36
10. Telligman, Tra 30


I said 4-5. You have 7 that aren't actual top 10 ranked opponents. Not a good look, friend. Is normal.
 
Fioretti said:
LOL!

  • Listing Matt LIndland, a ranked MW, is sad.
  • LIsting TK at #17, sad again.
  • Ogawa at #15, more sadness.

Randleman and Coleman are covered here in the historical rankings from May 2004:

May 2004

Heavyweight
1. Emelianeko Fedor - 99 Points (9 first place votes)
2. Minotauro Nogueira - 85 Points
3. Tim Sylvia - 82 Points
4. Josh Barnett - 74 Points (1 first place vote)
5. Mirko Cro Cop - 72 Points
6. Andrei Arlovksi - 69 Points
7. Heath Herring - 42 Points
8. Pedro Rizzo - 31 Points
9. Semmy Schilt - 25 Points
10.Frank Mir - 18 Points

Neither ranked!

Fujita not on this June 2003 list from the same historical rankings:

June 2003

Heavyweight:
1) Fedor Emelianenko (16-1-0)
2) Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (21-2-1)
3) Josh Barnett (14-1-0)
4) Mirko Filipovic (9-1-2)
5) Tim Sylvia (16-0-0)
6) Andrei Arlovski (6-3-0)
7) Heath Herring (23-9-0)
8) Mark Coleman (13-5-0)
9) Wesley Correira (13-5-0)
10) Travis Wiuff (29-4-0)

Babalu not on this list from the same historical rankings:

July 17, 2001
HEAVYWEIGHT 205 lbs. and up (93 kg and up)
1. Coleman, Mark 156
2. Couture, Randy 135
3. Vovchanchin, Igor 114
4. Rizzo, Pedro 111
5. Fujita, Kazuyuki 91
6. Nogueira, Rodrigo "Minotauro" 81
7. Herring, Heath 55
8. Kerr, Mark 40
9. Barnett, Josh 36
10. Telligman, Tra 30


I said 4-5. You have 7 that aren't actual top 10 ranked opponents. Not a good look, friend. Is normal.
Click to expand...

Your rankings are not the only ones.
You only have partial snapshots - complation that somebody recorded, probably from only one ranking.
There were allways 2-4 different rankings and ranking media in each point in time, and they are all legit and written evidences of MMA history.

Someody may not be ranked by Sherdog in 2021, but if he is ranked by Fightmatrix, or MMA Junkie for example it is legit and OK.

Fujita and Coleman were ranked when they fought Fedor.
Balalu also. Randelman was ranked few months after he fought Fedor, rankings probably needed some time to update.

T Koshaka was MMA legend who had many good wins in career, why would beating him be sad.
Ogawa was Top 15 same as many other guys later. If you niwadays beat 3 nobodies in a row in UFC, you are in Top 15.
 
DayV said:
Your rankings are not the only ones.
You only have partial snapshots - complation that somebody recorded, probably from only one ranking.
There were allways 2-4 different rankings and ranking media in each point in time, and they are all legit and written evidences of MMA history.

Someody may not be ranked by Sherdog in 2021, but if he is ranked by Fightmatrix, or MMA Junkie for example it is legit and OK.

Fujita and Coleman were ranked when they fought Fedor.
Balalu also. Randelman was ranked few months after he fought Fedor, rankings probably needed some time to update.

T Koshaka was MMA legend who had many good wins in career, why would beating him be sad.
Ogawa was Top 15 same as many other guys later. If you niwadays beat 3 nobodies in a row in UFC, you are in Top 15.
Click to expand...

There were tons of sites that had rankings, and only 1-3 (maybe) were considered. One over all is MMAWeekly. They were the most highly regarded, accepted, and considered the standard. These are mmaweekly archived rankings. On top of that, if you had a guy appear in 1 ranking, but 5 guys in all the rankings, it speaks for itself.

Your shit's weak!
 
Viper2 said:
Blah...blah...blah

Prime Fedor brutally KOs Prime Jon Jones.

Deal with it.
Click to expand...
Yea cans are not he was skilled and dangerous, overall I think aspects of pride were overrated but nobody can tell me that a prime Fedor wouldn't have a really good chance of beating any current top heavyweights. He had a good skillset and was very athletic for giys that size especially his speed
 
YungSithLxrd said:
Yea cans are not he was skilled and dangerous, overall I think aspects of pride were overrated but nobody can tell me that a prime Fedor wouldn't have a really good chance of beating any current top heavyweights. He had a good skillset and was very athletic for giys that size especially his speed
Click to expand...

He was an incredibly well rounded fighter with mad skills. Nobody denies that. He finished most of his fights, and had a good mix of KO's and subs in his finishes. Absolutely a dangerous fight for anybody.

He just wasn't some unstoppable god with a godlike streak, obliterating every known HW in the world, as all the revisionist fanboys like to say he was. He fought twice as many undeserving fighters than he did deserving fighters. The majority of the ranked fighters he fought were #6-10. His legacy is constructed of exaggerated and misconstrued tall tales.
 
I assume the reason new fans dislike Fedor is that Pride fans often use the "Prime Fedor was unbeatable" argument, rather than just mentioning his good wins.

Cause he did have quite a few good ones, like
* five top3 fights: Cro Cop, all three Big Nog fights, Arlovski
* three top5 fights: Herring, Sylvia
* around six top10 fights: Sobral, Schilt, Fujita, Randleman, Hunt, Rogers
Melas Chasma said:
Doesn't matter when Fedor still has more top10 wins, those zulus and chois were just a bonus on top of it.
Click to expand...
So true!
The argument "Fedor's recor is bad.. He fought Hong Man Choi" is laughable.
A record can be super padded - as long as you also have good wins, the padding doesn't matter.

If you have 10 fights and beat 10 elite guys, and I have 30 fights and beat up 20 puppies but also beat 10 elite guys - my record is still as good. One can't just say "This guy has a bad record... he fought puppies!"
 
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