Why do Japanese fighters flunk when they come over to the UFC?

bubby said:
There was a lot of stalling in PRIDE. You ever watch an Arona fight? Or a Fujita fight where he used his grappling? It doesn't hold up.
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Well of course there was some stalling, it wasn't a perfect system. But not only was there a mechanism to address the stalling during the fight, but the judges seemed to value takedowns a lot less in Pride when rendering decisions, which made it a hard adjustment for Japanese fighters when fighting in unified rules where takedowns are often overvalued.
 
It´s something about lack of strenght, small size and no knockout power at all. Except for Fujita, he has a good punch. All other japanese are easy targets.
 
Mochan said:
I actually thought it was the other way around. NA MMA rules favor wrestlers, Pride rules punish wrestlers.
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Again, in what way?

Apart from idiotically removing elbows, there isn't a big enough difference for this mindset to be so memetic.
 
In a lot of cases(Gomi, Kid, Kawajiri) we only see them in the UFC after they've started to decline and can't get the big paydays in Japan anymore.
 
Lack of weight cutting. Watch Uno vs Tibau, there was 25 pounds between them on fight nught. Uno was probably the size of Cruz in there. Brutal.
 
Thunderchild said:
Well of course there was some stalling, it wasn't a perfect system. But not only was there a mechanism to address the stalling during the fight, but the judges seemed to value takedowns a lot less in Pride when rendering decisions, which made it a hard adjustment for Japanese fighters when fighting in unified rules where takedowns are often overvalued.
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Pride had a ton of bad decisions, too.

And if anything, takedowns are undervalued on Sherdog. Getting one makes you lose a round in too many people's eyes.
 
Mochan said:
BTW Japanese fighters do relatively well in Japan when fighting American fighters or fighters who do well in NA MMA events.

For instance, as you mentioned Aoki destroyed Alvarez when they fought in Japan, and he did it faster than Alvarez did to him in Bellator.
Sakurai destroyed Jens Pulver (UFC champion)
etc.

There's an element to the changes in the rules and arena, for sure.
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Yes, but Alvarez wasn't as experienced as he was in 2012 when they first fought in 2008. Not to mention Eddie made the rookie mistake of going to the ground with Aoki the first time. He didn't make that mistake again and wouldn't make that a third time. If they where to have a rubber match, Eddie would most likely KO him again, regardless if in Asia or not.

But I'll give you the Pulver example. However, that's only one example.

bubby said:
Pride had a ton of bad decisions, too.

And if anything, takedowns are undervalued on Sherdog. Getting one makes you lose a round in too many people's eyes.
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.... Just stop.
 
Weaker bone structure is the answer. Been watching combat sports since 1989. Asians get knocked out easier. Oh and leave the racism at the door this is s very real debate backed by scientific evidence.

It's why the Thais got wrecked by the Dutch as well until they had to change the rules of they're own fight game so they had a chance again.
 
bubby said:
Again, in what way?

Apart from idiotically removing elbows, there isn't a big enough difference for this mindset to be so memetic.
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Three Point attacks. The legality of three point and ground strikes in Pride made it devilishly bad for wrestlers who screwed up a takedown as they could be soccer kicked into oblivion.

Then there's the elbows you mentioned, which wrestlers love to use.

Lastly, the scoring system. Wrestlers in the UFC can win on points just by taking you down (and doing nothing else). In Pride this style of fighting doesn't really get you bonus points with the judges. The judging criteria was so different -- and this also ties in with why Asian MMA in general is more blitzy, because the judging criteria favors aggression -- you are literally given points for being aggressive.
 
they are usually unfairly analyzed
-Gono had a very close fight with Dan Hardy that went the distance, with a split decision Hardy started his brief WW run that would get him a title shot---yet Gono had a toss-up fight vs him
-Okami was 13-5 overall, a very much winning record--he was cut off 1 standalone loss to Jacare
-Nakamura already had a streaky record and performance in Pride, he simply continued that hot-cold performance in UFC. He only had 2 fights in the UFC, 1 decision and 1 TKO.
-Kid and Gomi had already run their prime, health and motivation (for Gomi) were deteriorating even BEFORE UFC--again, it's a perception thing that they failed in the UFC when anyone who followed their careers knew they were not what they were even before UFC.
-Kawajiri vs Melendez 1 was very close, I had it for Kawajiri. It was a NYE Pride show, watched it live on PPV. but what you are told or only saw is that Melendez KOd Kawajiri in SF.
-Sakuraba is a UFC HW tournament winner. Beat Carlson Gracie BB HW by armbar.
-Kondo is 1-2 in the UFC, at the height of his prime, only fought 3 times in UFC. His fight against Dantas was exciting. Loss to prime champion Tito, had a tough fight against The Janitor.

Watch their fights instead of generalizing. Americans, English-men (whatever the proper term is), Brazilians, Mexicans lose all the time--they are not usually unfairly grouped as one gigantic group like the Asians/Japanese.
 
bubby said:
Sorry for having a different opinion and asking you to clarify yours. That must have been traumatic.
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Not at all. I laid out my argument with what I thought were well reasoned points, you disagree, and that's cool. Agree to disagree, but no not traumatic. I'm cooler than a yeti eating frozen spaghetti.
 
It's simply easier in japan.

Some guy with a padded record of 11-0 would fight a guy with a record of 2-3 and therefor become 12-0

None of this weight cutting stuff explains why not even 1 fighter is top anymore.
 
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B-Man said:
Lack of weight cutting. Watch Uno vs Tibau, there was 25 pounds between them on fight nught. Uno was probably the size of Cruz in there. Brutal.
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Lol, a 25lb weight difference isn't brutal. Though the strength difference was very apparent, I'm not even going to lie about that.
 
Thunderchild said:
Not at all. I laid out my argument with what I thought were well reasoned points, you disagree, and that's cool. Agree to disagree, but no not traumatic. I'm cooler than a yeti eating frozen spaghetti.
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Yeti's don't eat pasta ya goof.
 
I think it's because you're only as good as your coaches and training partners. The camps here are just better.
 
Its in their culture to get their asses kicked by America and Japanese people respect culture
 
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