Why do accomplished Runners do so poorly at MMA cardio?

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by -guerilla-, Apr 27, 2019.

  1. ryun253

    ryun253 Black Belt

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    Tension will gas a person out no matter how in shape they are in.
     
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  2. TheHighFly

    TheHighFly Fly high above all expectations Platinum Member

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    Well for one I'd assume the stress in a new environment isn't helping anything, none the less their bodies are used to pumping oxygen down to the legs not having to do anything else(balancing the muscle usage between upper and lower body) So their bodies end up using a lot of that stored oxygen they're used to having, for their muscles instead. This also isn't taking into the account that wrestling, striking, MMA, etc. Uses a combination of aerobic and anaerobic cardio, where a good proportion of runners aren't balanced in both and usually excel in one or the other.
     
  3. Ian Coe

    Ian Coe Silver Belt Professional Fighter

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    I never got shin splints, but I did used to get ITB and initially plantar fasciitis.
    Looked around and found the reason (increased workload and running on the heels really). I never thought it would be an issue due to ringwork and skipping, however it makes sense that you increase the pace by lengthening your gait if there are no immediately penalties (ie cushioning from the shoes).

    I ended up running in vibram 5 fingers and doing a lot of stretching and it resolved the issue.
    When I stop spending money on hiking gear, I'm going to look to buy something like a pair of UA fat tyres and some other barefoot shoes and alternative between them.
    At the moment I mainly run in trainers with a zero drop to force myself to run on the balls/midfoot.
    I say force myself. I've been running that way since 2008 now so it's more natural for me now.
     
  4. Tayski

    Tayski Stand-up Fighting

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  5. beat...people...up?

    beat...people...up? Orange Belt

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    Hm. I ran competitively for many years. Mostly mile and 5k. I think it helped with my BJJ quite a lot.

    Yes, at first I gassed out faster grappling than I did running. But after about 9 months of experience my technique caught up to my fitness level and now I can outlast just about anyone. I've had two 15+-minute tournament matches in sub-only and didn't find them exhausting. I hear frequently from rolling partners that I move quickly and "just don't stop" which might mean I also fail to establish positions :p .
     
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  6. listrahtes

    listrahtes Brown Belt

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    Thats quite a superficial statement but understandable as most martial arts running is just "now go run for 5 miles and get back". There you have very little gain but planned thought through running in general should accompany every invested fighter and thats why most do it and why the absolute cardio monsters in boxing back in the old times (Marciano) near all went for long runs.

    Benefits:
    -less stress on cardiovascular system while activating it to adapt with aerobic runs. This especially helps your body to stay not only fit but healthy. In very low intensity its a great way to loose lactic acid from previous training sessions and regenerate your body through running much more effective than resting!.

    -VO2max training very effective with HIIT training.

    -reducing of autonom nervous system stress levels (aerobic). Mental recreation.

    -you can much more pinpoint the ideal intensity levels in anaerobic / aerobic stimuli to perfect a progression in different endurance types.

    Running for sure doesnt help much if you havent perfected the motions in martial arts and are tensed up. That drains cardio like a *******. So main focus should stay ma training and motoric development.

    My recommendation for martial arts practicioners. Do invest in planning your running sessions. Dont just go running. The best way to go about is polarized training approach which means LDR (long distance runs in very low intensity) and HIIT units (High Intensity Interval Training). This is only recommendable if you have reached a certain fitness level as its quite intense and otherwise you would be prone to injury. Nothing for a beginner. I`d say if you can run 10km in 45-50min you can start with it.

    A nice byproduct: Imo nothing helps developing mental strenght as much as sparring and intervall running training. Its just brutal on the mind sometimes.

    Thats just how you learned about running. It can be much much more and a lot closer to martial arts necessities. Read my post above.
     
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  7. TheeFaulted

    TheeFaulted Inzer Belt

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    The real question, is why is this thread still a thing?
     
  8. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993

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    Because people who want to fight still believe that running is how you develop cardio

    2 clones

    1 clone rolls 1hr a day and runs 1 hr a day
    The other
    Rolls 2 hrs a day

    At the end of the year the clone that rolls exclusively is going to beat the other one's ass and have better cardio LOL
     
  9. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993

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    It's wise to keep it superficial and basic for combat athletes and Sherdog ESPECIALLY LOL

    The fact is that statement is 100% true if you got time to run you didn't grapple enough today

    But seriously it's more about logistics than deep science
     
  10. listrahtes

    listrahtes Brown Belt

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    I agree and everything I wrote has nothing to do with "deep science". Its just scientifical.

    Thinking, researching and doing as a trias with changing sequence. Thats honestly always the best approach and exactly the same in martial arts training.

    Regarding logistics my recommendation was for someone seriously trying to get into professional fighting. If its only recreational 2x / week its overblown and just a little bit of running is absolutely enough.

    But as that is sherdog and everyone trains 10h/day I had to come up with a pro running plan. :D
     
  11. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993

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    Agreed...

    Plus consider the psychological advantages of sticking with a program that has proven itself

    Running is good for cardio...its just not as good as MMA or grappling

    What would be really interesting is if runners started grappling for cardio but its really about sport specific requirements
     
  12. Kiwi Tricker

    Kiwi Tricker Green Belt

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    I know, right? Jesus.
     
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  13. Noodles03

    Noodles03 Green Belt

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    Please take my response with a grain a salt since I’m no expert, however I am some one who wants to continue to learn more.

    I agree with your example if you take someone who spends 1 hr of rolling will definitely outperform some one who just runs. However I also believe if that same person who rolls 1hr a day and does a bit of liss and hiit type of conditioning will see improvement in his/hers performance.
     
  14. NurseKnuckles

    NurseKnuckles My Mom's stronger than you belt

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    If we're all in consensus regarding cardio and cardiovascular health/fitness then why are we still discussing this shit? honestly if you want to gas less in MMA, I would MMA more...
     
  15. RNC555

    RNC555 Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    they panic and gas out. theyre not used to having a man on top of them etc. running still translates to any type of sport. but trained vs un trained biggest difference is that one knows how to use their body efficiently and one doesnt. the runner might have way better cardio than a grappler but hes not efficient.
     
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  16. ChickenBrother

    ChickenBrother JCPENNEY $3.98 BELT

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    As a runner I'm biased but I've always acknowledged both sides of this debate. Wanted a straight answer from an expert so after class today I asked my coach. He's a 10-1 MMA pro and UFC prospect. He's also the main sparring partner for his brother who is a top 5 UFC contender and 11-3 in the UFC.

    He said he and his brother run between fights. He feels it builds cardio and adds variety to training but he keeps it under 2 miles and typically does interval sprints. During fight camps he does not run because he's on a prescribed routine of other training designed to prepare him for his opponent and to make weight (he also stops lifting weights 2 weeks out from the fight). However, he's relatively small for his weight class and "only" cuts 17 lbs.

    I asked if he believes all UFC level fighters should run and he was noncommittal. He believes running has a place in most fighters' training but thinks it's possible to have great cardio without it. I will note that he has the young fighters he coaches do a lot of outdoor running and interval sprints.

    So I think the answer to the OP is YMMV and there's no one size fits all. For the record I personally believe that at lower levels while still learning proper technique, more mat time > running if your main objective is doing well in competition.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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  17. Judoka1532

    Judoka1532 Judoka1532

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    Well first I don't subscribe to the idea that established runners have bad cardio.

    Assuming some "runners" have gassed out, my guess is that's because of the type of fight. If it was stand up, then I would see the runner guy to last longer and stay fresher. But if it's a grappling match then I don't think the runner has as big of an advantage. Obviously you don't want to be skinny, but you also don't want to be jacked.
     
  18. -guerilla-

    -guerilla- Founder of the Louisville fight club est..1993

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  19. thugpoet

    thugpoet Purple Belt

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    I almost never did/do gpp cardio. If I was training basketball I got my cardio from basketball. Boxing , I boxed, grappling I grappled.

    Theres just not enough time in the day to do app while trying to get better technique.

    Gpp is for when you need a break from the grind of your sport. Not saying gpp doesn't help but I'd rather rep out a new move then run 3 miles.

    Gpp has it place though. Btw gpp for me is anything that isn't apart of your sport. ( running, swimming, weight lifting)
     
  20. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Yellow Card Yellow Card

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    sometimes you dont have good enough partners to push you grappling for cardio especially if you are the top dog of your gym

    i like running 2 days a week when competing i feel it does help my cardio but its only 1 part mix up with hill sprints on other days

    to me id like to take 2 days a week for conditining which i keep fairly simple either trying to hit 10 massive hill sprints or try to find a push sled as well o row machine which id like to use one day
     

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