Why didnt Marco Ruas invincibility in Vale Tudo translate over to the UFC?

[TheMaster]

How strong was that dude Hugo Duarte that Tank beat? Its the only name Tank defeated.

Its really hard to say as coming unstuck against a guy like Tank isn't anything to be ashamed of. Tank was KO'ing next gen fighters like the granite chin Cabbage well into his 40's and he had a massive weight advantage and decent wrestling.

Duarte had a huge name in Brazil though due to Lutre Livre rivalry he had with Rickson, so for the Brazilians it elevated Tank to elite status. Thats why they celebrated like they just won the world title when Ruas student Pedro Rizzo stopped Tank in his next fight.

 

[orca]

The two are nothing alike, and Ruas didn't fall off when he fought better competition (neither did Fedor?).

Could at least educate yourself on the topic before commenting on it.

pretty sure fedor started losing left and right because of better competition more well rounded fighter
imagine fedor vs dc or cain
fedor would get a beating harder than what oldman hendo did to him

 

[Intermission]

Marco could beat up all the haters in this thread at age 64.

Asking why someone wasnt invincible is hardly hating

 

[Intermission]

There's about a dozen people who were rumored to have been barred from UFC 1 because the Gracies were worried they would have beaten the shit out of Royce, so I

They banned competitiors who knew BJJ since that would nullify the point of Royce participation

 

[Bork Neslar]

Context matters, but you seem too dumb to understand that. This thread is pointless.

 

[mkt]

Wording isnt important. People talk about Ruas with reverence. Oleg is just viewed as a strong fighter.

This is pure semantics...and meaningless.

 

[TheMaster]

Oleg was a very good fighter and absolutely had elite grappling skills for the mid-90s. I haven't seen their fights in ages but the surprising thing I remember was Oleg hanging with Ruas in the striking.

Takedown threat. Totally changes the striking dynamic and forces a lower stance for the striker as well making them more hesitant to throw kicks. Its why a guy like Randleman was able to KTFO Cro cop.

 

[mkt]

I hate the fact that the grapplers were experienced MMA fighters wheras the strikers were complete fish out of water in that format. It wasnt a fair representation of striking vs grappling.

Really that was just the Gracies...and later Ruas, but the sport had evolved a bit by the time Ruas arrived. The Gracies had done years of "Challenge" fights prior to the UFC. Wrestlers who entered the tournament did well, but were often clueless about submissions (see Olympian Kevin Jackson vs. Frank Shamrock). I guess you could Oleg in the same camp as the Gracies, as he had a bit of experience in Russia. The same with Ken Shamrock after UFC 1. At UFC 1, Ken only had 1 year of Pancrase experience and had no idea how to fight a guy wearing a gi or all of the submissions in BJJ. He was still new to the sport and only knew a few leglocks and maybe RNC and guillotine.

 

[HHJ]

Marco Ruas has a MMA fight on his record from 1984.

He was 34 when he lost to Oleg. So maybe he was declining by then?

How dare you insinuate that Marco wasn't king of ALL the STREETS all of the time???

RVT all up in ya shit, bitch.

 

[HHJ]

Faced better competition, father time caught on, still a legend.
Guy has official fight on his record from 84 lol. He was in the sport for ten years before it even existed.

View attachment 1092733

Absolute legend.

Basically invented cross training

 

[Intermission]

Context matters, but you seem too dumb to understand that. This thread is pointless.

It's the same context

 

[Ara tech]

Marco was the best of his time and deserve a small mention in the history book but nothing more.

He was the king of the street, he was the best of his time, in a time where MMA or should I rather say old valetudo was underdeveloped, and not very competitive.

To be the best of a non competitive primitive era cannot be compared to a Jon Jones/GSP or Khabib/Islam for example.

 

[HHJ]

To be the best of a non competitive primitive era cannot be compared to a Jon Jones/GSP or Khabib/Islam for example.

But why should anyone do that?

Marco Ruas is an MMA legend and his attitude towards training was pretty ahead of it's time.

The guy was actually doing the sport before people knew it existed.

We don't need to denigrate the accomplishments of fighters from the past by comparing them to an era that did not exist when he was around.

It's totally unfair to do that.

 

[Ara tech]

We don't need to denigrate the accomplishments of fighters from the past by comparing them to an era that did not exist when he was around.

It's totally unfair to do that.

I understand your point but you rate people not based on skills, but on resume an accomplishment. If there is nothing much to be accomplished in your era because it is under developed, even though you may be a pionner.

Let's imagine a general X, who live in peace time in the middle age. There is no powerful enemies, maybe he was legit and cunning, perhaps even better than general Y, but if general Y was succesful in a time where his country is full of enemies and if he overcomes them, he will be superior to general X.

Accomplishments are always superior to skills, because they are all that matter. Even if Marco was a beast to be reckoned with.
The mystery will be what would happened if you put a 18 years old Marco Ruas training in the world of today, he could had improved his skillsets with the internet, elite coaching, strenght and conditionning, and become succesful in our period.

Maybe, yes, maybe, no, but there is no maybe but only reality. The best of his era, perhaps, but the era of today is greater than the era of yesterday because MMA is a new sport that didn't peak yet. So the best of our eras will be superior than the best of the eras of the past, even though that they as well deserve respect for what they did.

 

[HHJ]

I understand your point but you rate people not based on skills, but on resume an accomplishment. If there is nothing much to be accomplished in your era because it is under developed, even though you may be a pionner.

Let's imagine a general X, who live in peace time in the middle age. There is no powerful enemies, maybe he was legit and cunning, perhaps even better than general Y, but if general Y was succesful in a time where his country is full of enemies and if he overcomes them, he will be superior to general X.

Accomplishments are always superior to skills, because they are all that matter. Even if Marco was a beast to be reckoned with.
The mystery will be what would happened if you put a 18 years old Marco Ruas training in the world of today, he could had improved his skillsets with the internet, elite coaching, strenght and conditionning, and become succesful in our period.

Maybe, yes, maybe, no, but there is no maybe but only reality. The best of his era, perhaps, but the era of today is greater than the era of yesterday because MMA is a new sport that didn't peak yet. So the best of our eras will be superior than the best of the eras of the past, even though that they as well deserve respect for what they did.

You just need to enjoy the King of the Streets for what we got from him. Reading old interviews of his, you get a great sense of his open mindedness and advanced thinking on how to succeed in MMA at the time.

 

[jeskola]

Asking why someone wasnt invincible is hardly hating

Maybe I wasn't referring to you then? There are for sure some haters in here shitting on Marco's legacy.

 

[Hdfi]

Valetudo is a bike, MMA in 2025 is a Kawasaki. You cannot compare. It's like people living in stone compared with people who live in skyscrapper.

In an unarmed 1v1 fight, I would bet on prime Ruas against today's point fighters and decisionators.

 

[mkt]

Its really hard to say as coming unstuck against a guy like Tank isn't anything to be ashamed of. Tank was KO'ing next gen fighters like the granite chin Cabbage well into his 40's and he had a massive weight advantage and decent wrestling.

Duarte had a huge name in Brazil though due to Lutre Livre rivalry he had with Rickson, so for the Brazilians it elevated Tank to elite status. Thats why they celebrated like they just won the world title when Ruas student Pedro Rizzo stopped Tank in his next fight.

There's a rumor (with pretty decent sources) that the Gracies kept Tank out of the earliest UFCs when Royce fought. They were certainly caught off guard by Kimo, too. He was supposed to be a TKD fighter, but was a high school wrestler who allegedly learned a little BJJ second hand (Joe Son's friend learned from Rickson then taught Kimo). Just that basic grappling experience, athelticism and a big advantage in strength was enough to give Royce fits and keep him from continuing in the tournament.

Duarte paid the price for coming a little too late to the UFC scene. In his first 4 fights, he demolished all of his opponents (including 2 guys who fought in the UFC) more quickly and decisively than Royce did. But of course the Gracies didn't want Duarte, Ruas, Oleg Taktarov or any other real threats in the earliest UFCs. I'd give both Ruas and Duarte a good shot of beating Royce from 1993-95. They both knew how to defend against submissions, were bigger/stronger and much more dangerous strikers than Royce.

 

[WoozyFailGuy]

They banned competitiors who knew BJJ since that would nullify the point of Royce participation

Yea, it would have nullified Royce by having someone punch him in the face over and over.
The Gracies didn't want even remedial grapplers participating.

There's a rumor (with pretty decent sources) that the Gracies kept Tank out of the earliest UFCs when Royce fought. They were certainly caught off guard by Kimo, too. He was supposed to be a TKD fighter, but was a high school wrestler who allegedly learned a little BJJ second hand (Joe Son's friend learned from Rickson then taught Kimo). Just that basic grappling experience, athelticism and a big advantage in strength was enough to give Royce fits and keep him from continuing in the tournament.

Case in point.

At the end of the day, UFC 1 was supposed to be a commercial for the Gracies. We got lucky and it caught on as a sport.

 

[mkt]

In an unarmed 1v1 fight, I would bet on prime Ruas against today's point fighters and decisionators.

I'd bet on him vs. any version of Anthony Smith (current or prime). Smith could hardly beat an unarmed, untrained, smaller home intruder.

I also think early versions of Tank and Goodridge might do better in some street fight/self-defense situations than modern fighters. They're certainly not as evolved, but had that primal killer instinct. Point fighters tend to overthink and hesitate.