Why Did Fedor's Prime End Early?

[welcometohavoc]

People age different.

But let's say Fedor wasn't past his prime when he lost. That means his legacy is, after going undefeated for 10 years(longest noteworthy streak in MMA history), being the #1 HW in the world for over 7 years(longest reign a top any division in MMA history), being a universally recognized top 3 P4P fighter for 2660 days(longest in MMA history), compiling more quality wins than any fighter not named Silva or GSP, more top 10 wins than any HW other than Nogueira, the most top 5 wins in HW history, the most wins over #1 & #2 HWs in history, and winning 7 #1 HW championship fights(most in HW history).

He lost to 2 top 10 HWs(one that is a UFC champion and universally recognized as a top 5 all-time HW and another that was a UFC championship challenger and that holds wins over top HWs Overeem, Arlovski, Browne, and a draw against Hunt) and a top 10 LHW(who just so happens to be universally recognized as one of the 10 greatest mixed martial artists of all-time). Those are his 3 legitimate "prime" loses. What a bum.

Meh you can rationalize it all you want. He got beat by a small LHW who spent most of his career at 185. He then almost got finished by a journeyman LHW in his own country. The fight probably would have been stopped in most promotions.

He's definitely the HW GOAT as of right now, but the overall GOAT, no

 

[moogie101]

-Fedor fought very recently in Pride.
-U can't compare age with others as everyone ages differently.
-He didn't adapt to fighting in a cage.

 

[Haj01]

Why did the chicken cross the road?

 

[welcometohavoc]

He relied a lot on speed and explosiveness, two first things you lose aging

You see a visible decline in performance before his first loss vs Werdum, and even before that he lost in Sambo

None of his opponents did anything incredible, younger Fedor will have likely fucked up all of them

Speed had nothing to do with Fedor jumping into Werdum's guard or getting KO'd by Hendo while trying to get up

 

[fightfan70]

quit reading after rockhold beats fedor.

 

[Towerworld]

People age different.

But let's say Fedor wasn't past his prime when he lost. That means his legacy is, after going undefeated for 10 years(longest noteworthy streak in MMA history), being the #1 HW in the world for over 7 years(longest reign a top any division in MMA history), being a universally recognized top 3 P4P fighter for 2660 days(longest in MMA history), compiling more quality wins than any fighter not named Silva or GSP, more top 10 wins than any HW other than Nogueira, the most top 5 wins in HW history, the most wins over #1 & #2 HWs in history, and winning 7 #1 HW championship fights(most in HW history).

He lost to 2 top 10 HWs(one that is a UFC champion and universally recognized as a top 5 all-time HW and another that was a UFC championship challenger and that holds wins over top HWs Overeem, Arlovski, Browne, and a draw against Hunt) and a top 10 LHW(who just so happens to be universally recognized as one of the 10 greatest mixed martial artists of all-time). Those are his 3 legitimate "prime" loses. What a bum.

Hes good for sure just not the GOAT, Werdum and Stipe are certainly better HW's and he's not even close to GSP.

 

[Vegeta12]

Arlovski was far from his best performance. He was probably already past his prime at that point. IIRC Arlovski was doing pretty well in that fight prior to the goofy jump knee Fedor countered him on, which ko'd him.

I also wouldn't say his prime ended early. Some guys "primes" are about 5 fights of their careers. Fedor was the best fighter on the planet for closer to a decade than not.

 

[Stevanchez]

I don't think (correction: hope) most people who have some Fedor criticisms are claiming he sucks because of these losses.
I think they're just tired of fans who seem like they don't acknowledge the losses, saying "PRIME Fedor could not lose. That Fedor who lost was a different Fedor".
They'd probably be happy with people just acknowledging those as legit losses, and saying "Yeah, Fedor lost a few times, he's still great".

Read some of TowerWorld treads and posts. He's not one. It is not unreasonable to consider the possibility than an athlete could have declined. In fact, it is a reality that at somepoint(which is different for everyone) a person will physically deminish.

Also, saying "he lost to a MW" or "he lost to the worst HW ever, Bigfoot" is a common thing said on these forums as a "fact" as to why he isn't the GHWOAT or one of the greatest mixed martial artists of all time. The real facts are that his resume (when not arbitrarily revised for personal biases) is better than any fighter other than GSP and arguably Silva. Yes, that includes Stipe, Cain, Cormier, and Jones.

Would those fighters beat mid-2000s Fedor or viceversa? Nobody knows, if they say otherwise, they're full of shit, and IT DOES NOT MATTER. You could time travel 2005 Fedor to today, have Stipe knock him out, and guess what, his resume still wouldn't be greater than Fedor's. Just like how you could use a time machine to have Deontay Wilder KO Joe Louis and he still wouldn't be a greater HW.

There is a huge difference between "Better" and "Greater". And what Fedor did in his time is GREATER than anything any of todays fighters have done. Whether they could beat him or not, whether they are more "evolved" or not, whether Fedor legitimately lost or not. Again, IT DOES NOT MATTER.

And I'm tired of hearing people say otherwise.

 

[MMAandBOXINGfan]

This is one of the most debated topics among Sherdog's martial arts experts today, Fedor suddenly became "past prime" just one year after the single greatest performance career vs Andrei Arlovski.

One idea is mileage; fedor had been through 32 fights when he lost to werdum and 35 when he lost to Henderson. This notion is completely invalid though as Hendo had been through more fights with 8 losses to fedors 2 at the time.
Lets compare Fedor's Mileage with other "high mileage" fighters:

Overeem: 65 mma fights, 15 brutal losses and 14 Kickboxing matches
But he just recently defeated Werdum, Hunt, Arlovski and JDS, just got better wins than fedor had during his entire career in 2 years.

Jeremy Stephens 41 fights, 14 losses but just put on some the best fights of his career

RDA- 37 fights same age as fedor when he was "past prime" but he's now the 1# contender at a higher weight class then he's ever fought

Michael Bisping- older than fedor had more fights when he beat Luke rockhold(who would kill fedor btw)

Examining the evidence , its clear that Fedor's mileage and age was very average when he lost meaning that there were other factors at work.

Was fedor scared or uncomfortable fighting in the US? Would Fedor have won if pride rules were used instead(even though fedor doesn't use soccer kicks ect.)? Did Fedor only perform so well because of certain medications?

What do you guys think was the reason Fedor lost?

it didnt.. it has been said most fighters and or atheletes have a window of about 10 years to be at their best... what happend to him is simila to what happened to Tito Ortiz and to boxer Fernando Vargas... enjoyed so much success earlier in their careers than most and fall off really bad at the end.. blah sucks

 

[george14]

Meh you can rationalize it all you want. He got beat by a small LHW who spent most of his career at 185. He then almost got finished by a journeyman LHW in his own country. The fight probably would have been stopped in most promotions.

He's definitely the HW GOAT as of right now, but the overall GOAT, no

- Jones used roids, busted multiple times. Not to mention eye poke city.
- Anderson lost to a Welterweight (Chonan) who was 7-4 at the time and another bum (Takase) who was 4-7-1 at the time. Also used roids.
- GSP has far fewer fights than Fedor and lost to Matt Serra (retired with an 11-7 record) in the biggest upset ever.
- Mighty Mouse fights in a suspect division and lost when he fought a good fighter at a higher weightclass.

I'm not starting an argument, I'm just showing you how easy it is to dissect any GOAT candidate.

FWIW, using Hendo against Fedor isn't that strong. The guy has wins over Big Nog and Vitor. Both of those guys are/were bigger than Fedor.

 

[Stevanchez]

Hes good for sure just not the GOAT, Werdum and Stipe are certainly better HW's and he's not even close to GSP.

I have GSP(not a fan, but objective) as the GOAT and Fedor as the GHWOAT by a long way. But anyone that doesn't have Fedor at least as a top 4 GOAT, is an unobjective moron. Sorry.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

I don't think Fedor ever really lost any ability. He just had shitty training camps and wasn't taking the right steps with his body and diet. He's also better at fighting in a ring vs a cage.

Imo his reflexes have always been there. He just got lazy with training as he started looking a little softer.

Lets look at the Gary Goodrich fight from 2003. Gary Goodrich was 36 years old. At that point Gary was a tough guy with a few good wins, but with a 17-14 record could probably be placed in the Journeyman's category with his best years arguably behind him.

Now Lets look at Fedor vs Pedro Rizzo from 2012. Pedro was 37 years old with a 19-9 record. He also had some really good wins in his day and even fought for the UFC HW strap three times; but his best years were behind him and he was also slipping into that Journeyman's category.

Keep in mind that these fights are 9 years apart with opponents that are pretty much the same age, The same skill level and at the same point in their career. Fedor looks a little softer in the Rizzo fight and is a little more hesitant to unload, but there isn't a noticeable difference in Fedor's Movement. Which leads me to believe that Fedor's ability has always been there.

Fedor 2003



Fedor 2012

You are out of your fucking mind if you think a fighter is the same at age 27 as they are at age 36.

If you actually watched his whole career and kept up with the news you would see the gradual decline.

Only a moron would think guys like JDS, Carlos Condit and BJ Penn, etc..are still in their prime, and they have about half as many fights as Fedor and didn't spent nearly as long on top as Fedor.

Now I agree he probably got lazy with training after a decade on top but he also had many injuries and other things that affected that. He still lasted longer as a #1 than any other fighter ever.

 

[WARinsertname]

Arlovski was far from his best performance. He was probably already past his prime at that point. IIRC Arlovski was doing pretty well in that fight prior to the goofy jump knee Fedor countered him on, which ko'd him.

I also wouldn't say his prime ended early. Some guys "primes" are about 5 fights of their careers. Fedor was the best fighter on the planet for closer to a decade than not.

Honestly, before the stupid flying knee...That was the fastest/best AA we had witnessed up to that point. He looked like the fastest heavyweight at that moment. He looked so good I was worried for Fedor.

Before the fight I didn't see AA being such a threat because I was basing it off his past fights before that one...I was surprised at how fast he and his hands were. How crisp his boxing and footwork looked. I was impressed as hell in AA.

Too bad we never saw that man again...That knock out really did a number on him. He never fought that beautifully again.

 

[Towerworld]

I have GSP(not a fan, but objective) as the GOAT and Fedor as the GHWOAT by a long way. But anyone that doesn't have Fedor at least as a top 4 GOAT, is an unobjective moron. Sorry.

top 4 i agree 1.GSP 2. Stipe 3. Fedor 4. DJ

Silva and Jones are DQ'd for steroids.

 

[Stevanchez]

top 4 i agree 1.GSP 2. Stipe 3. Fedor 4. DJ

Silva and Jones are DQ'd for steroids.

Stipe is not greater than Fedor. I'm a fan of both, but objectively, it's not even close.

 

[myjohnson9]

Hes good for sure just not the GOAT, Werdum and Stipe are certainly better HW's and he's not even close to GSP.

An exciting fighter with more finishes than gsp has wins, who fought to his opponents strengths and still lost less rounds who didnt cut weight or pick and choose his fights and would beat the fuck out of gsp in a fight isnt even close?

 

[Vegeta12]

Honestly, before the stupid flying knee...That was the fastest/best AA we had witnessed up to that point. He looked like the fastest heavyweight at that moment. He looked so good I was worried for Fedor.

Before the fight I didn't see AA being such a threat because I was basing it off his past fights before that one...I was surprised at how fast he and his hands were. How crisp his boxing and footwork looked. I was impressed as hell in AA.

Too bad we never saw that man again...That knock out really did a number on him. He never fought that beautifully again.

Arlovski is low key one of my favorite fighters. He was champion when I first got into the UFC. I remember my brother telling me he is from Chicago(where I'm from) and I just fell in love with the dude(I was in the fifth grade when he became champ).
I agree with you, that was a scary Arlovski. Every time I see flashes of brilliance now I get happy.

 

[C0NCH3TO]

his “prime” is pretty debatable....imo 2 things went down with Fyodor...

First he had lots of mileage on him and with time his speed, raw power and reflexes declined. He is a tiny hw and relied heavily on that to win.

Second.. mma evolved and the freak shows ended. Anyone not admiting either one of these two is plain delusional . Fedor fought a good share of cans and that came to an end in strikeforce. You cannot claim that he lost only cause he got old.... it doesnt tell the whole story. I know many of his fans will get rustled and i will have many disagreeing with me but imo Fedor is a human being after all and he lost a few fights like 99 percent of fighters will at some point. I still have lots of hespect for him. He seems to be a great human being.

 

[WARinsertname]

Arlovski is low key one of my favorite fighters. He was champion when I first got into the UFC. I remember my brother telling me he is from Chicago(where I'm from) and I just fell in love with the dude(I was in the fifth grade when he became champ).
I agree with you, that was a scary Arlovski. Every time I see flashes of brilliance now I get happy.

That fight fucked him up, he seemed to put his all into his camp, like he had never done before. I remember an interview after the fight where some guy was trying to ask him questions and he kept staring at the same spot...With this look of desperation/death on his face. He didn't have the same eyes after that fight. He still has those eyes to this day...Like there is no fuck left in his "give a fuck" cup.

 

[DatSamboKid]

I know people hate reading this, but he wasn’t as good as people think he was.